AJA #51 Road Spray Aerodynamics & Argon Gas in Tires
0 commentsEPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Fatty (01:32)
It's the Marginal Gains Podcast, the show that makes a big deal about the little things and explains how those little things can be a big deal. I'm Fatty. I'm here with Josh Portner, CEO of Silca, and co-host Hottie. This is the 51st edition. Might be our 50th. We've stopped counting. Let's be honest. It's asked it's asked Josh anything. But first, guys, I have an announcement. I've done an Everest.
Josh (01:49)
We've lost track.
Woo how how how Yeah, on your birthday. I know that I think that is so so cool. So tell us, how did it go?
Hottie (02:00)
On your birthday you did it. Hmm.
Fatty (02:02)
I did it on my sixtieth birthday.
couldn't have gone better. ⁓ the weather was perfect in the I would say ⁓ low seventies to very low eighties. ⁓ one of the real benefits of doing ⁓ your rides is 7,000 to 8,000 feet, which is kind of where I live. ⁓ I felt strong the whole day, never cramped. I did a good job of keeping my pace nice and light, so my legs felt good the whole day. ⁓ I had a stretch goal, didn't tell a lot of people about it. I thought it would be nice to
Do the whole thing on my calendar birthday. I missed that by about 22 minutes, ⁓ stretch goal of 18 hours, and missed that by just two minutes. And you're gonna love this, guys. I think I set a new record for the number of gel packets consumed by an individual in a single calendar day. I had 48 gels.
Josh (03:04)
my
Hottie (03:04)
So
wait, what was your total time? How many gels per hour is that?
Fatty (03:09)
⁓ I set a timer on my Garmin hottie. You know that I do this for all of my big rides. I set it for twenty minutes. And so I had a gel every twenty minutes basically for eighteen hours. I skipped a you know, I didn't didn't have one for the first 40 minutes because that was breakfast. You know, I was still riding on breakfast. And when I took a break at a couple of times, you know, I'd have some pizza or something and didn't eat, you know, gel for a little bit after that, but forty eight gels all told.
Three an hour. ⁓ these are wood times.
Josh (03:41)
Smi smile, you let me see, you still have teeth? he's yep, t there's still teeth in there. ⁓ my goodness. My it makes
Hottie (03:42)
You're right, I know. You want the number to my dentist?
Josh (03:48)
like the inside of my mouth and my tongue are like feeling it, just thinking just hearing you talk about it. I'm like
Fatty (03:56)
Everybody is really weirded out by it. But the reality is, you know, when you you're you're not few, you're not eating for fun. ⁓ Hottie is famous in another podcast we do for saying food is mood. And I agree with that 99% of the time. But when I'm doing endurance, food is just fuel for me. And ⁓ the brand that I've been using, Amax, not a sponsor. Hey, Amax, give me a call. ⁓ but the but ⁓
Josh (04:07)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fatty (04:23)
They it's it's light tasting, the flavor, there's a few of them, not offensive to me, has a little bit of salt in it, and so it just it worked okay for me. But man, y ⁓ yes, I desperately wanted to brush my teeth when I got home at one thirty in the morning.
Hottie (04:40)
So we took almost an entire show, if not a full show, ⁓ talking about your Eversting attempt prior to obviously and trying to dive into some of the marginal gains you might use. So what what worked, what didn't, ⁓ in this Eversting?
Fatty (04:56)
⁓ I I had some nonsense idea about scattering tire repair kits all along the ⁓ all along the course. Didn't even wind up doing that when I thought about the idea of having to hike any distance at all to pick up a ⁓ a tire repair kit. I was like, how about if I just had that attached to my seat pack? Yes, that's what I did.
⁓ I did. ⁓ we talked about ⁓ getting some lighter wheels than my old zip three three's ⁓ those are about a decade old. ⁓ and I borrowed some from Melisa. She gave me a set of really light, nice KDEX wheels. My bike lost a pound by doing that. It was, I mean, boy, you can you can really feel a pound of rotational weight disappearing. I will tell you that. the the marginal gain that
Josh (05:39)
Wow.
Fatty (05:51)
We didn't talk about that wound up being massive for me. Hottie, you've been my crew so many times. You know that the that not spending any time at zero miles per hour is the best thing you can do for an endurance ride. And ⁓ I have a nurse for a wife who is, you know, she is a real pragmatic, practical operator, just amazing at getting things down. She's an ultra runner, she's done
So much. And she was my crew and my writing partner for most of the day. The way that she crewed for me was ingenious. So we would be ⁓ we'd get to the top of a lap. ⁓ I would say I would tell her what I want. I want this, you know, I want this in my bottle. I need three more gels. And I would just continue, would not wait for her and you know, hit the top, turn around, head down to the bottom, and turn back up. She meanwhile.
would just get what, you know, get off the bike, get what I need, and ride halfway down the lap, turn around, and then easy pedal until I caught up with her. We would exchange in motion. I wouldn't slow down a bit. And so basically by having her mule for me, I was able the on able to go so that the only time I ever slowed down for food or for drink or for anything was if I felt like it.
in I never stopped because I needed to. ⁓ that, I mean, saved me probably, who knows, h however often I would stop ⁓ I would have otherwise stopped. You know, those one minute stops that turn into three minute stops and five minute stops, those add up over, you know, thirty two repetitions of a lap. ⁓ and I I think that was probably my most meaningful marginal gain, you know, that
Me w that turned out to be a really big deal.
Hottie (07:45)
I guess it's against Eversting rules to do like Madison style, right? Where if you have a pacer, like the one rider can sling the other or up the up the hill. That's probably against the rules, I would imagine.
Josh (07:45)
Yeah, that
⁓
Fatty (07:51)
Ha ha ha.
⁓ to i yes, I I imagine it probably is, but boy, that that would be awesome if you just went from where f you know, fireman style, you know, sling you up the entire the entire section with a you know a big group of strong folks who can just, you know, whip you up from person to person. There you go. Easiest easiest everst ever.
Hottie (08:00)
This is too bad.
Yeah.
Josh (08:08)
Yeah.
Hottie (08:16)
So Josh Josh's biggest marginal gain
suggestion was the le the leaf blower. Did the leaf blower not come out? That was the best one.
Fatty (08:25)
I ⁓ the leaf blower idea was a fantastic one. we had it wouldn't have mattered because there was a ton of wind that was bringing crud down onto the trail or onto the road, regardless. There were rocks and gravel and things that were fresh from the day before that I that I noticed there. ⁓ so
Josh (08:39)
Hm. Yeah.
Fatty (08:52)
didn't do that, still did not have a single flat, although, and this is wild. on my final lap, my light went out, you know, because I I finished in the dark, about ⁓ I would say a quarter mile from the top. And when I got home and took my bike off the rack, I had a cut, it was absolutely flat. I picked up a staple.
Josh (09:10)
wow.
Fatty (09:20)
after I finished the ride. So n nothing went bad until it would didn't matter that it would go bad. So ⁓ some nice little pieces of luck.
Josh (09:22)
geez. ⁓ That's
Hottie (09:30)
Mm.
Hmm. Yeah.
Josh (09:35)
that's awesome. Well I'm
so happy for you and it's congrats. I mean, that is huge.
Fatty (09:40)
It it felt huge. It was very
strange to I mean, it there is a a sense of surrealness when you have done the same climb, say fifteen times, and you're right in the middle, literally, of this thing, and you can't remember a time in your life when you haven't been writing and you can't picture anymore a time when you will not be writing. It's like I am Sisyphus, I will be doing this forever. And
Josh (10:05)
Yeah.
Fatty (10:08)
It was I mean, you really do get to a point where it's like, I wonder if this is just how life is now. I am just going to be riding forever. Strange things go on in your head. ⁓ you can no longer do simple math. I mean, I really could, you know, doing simple subtraction of how many more laps do I have to do in order to accomplish the remainder of this twenty-nine thousand plus feet of climbing.
And you know, stuff that I can do in my head automatically without even normally being aware that I'm doing math at all. ⁓ I would just get wrong. It's like, ⁓ let's see, twenty-nine minus fourteen. I should know that. So I mean, it it it it is funny how strange and in a way insane, non lucid you become after you've
Josh (10:49)
Yeah, can't do it.
Fatty (11:01)
been riding for so long and where the only thing you can continue to do is this very automatic r you know, turning the cranks. ⁓ I think that's part of why I do it, but ⁓ not necessarily something that I'm going to ever do again.
Hottie (11:18)
Okay, well, congrats again, Fatty, and ⁓ you don't mind if we get some listener questions now, right? You you ready for that? Okay, cool. Okay. the first comes from Jacob H from Denmark. He says, I commute to work 40 kilometers each way, by the way, on a paved bike path. Denmark, of course, known for its changeable weather. Today I was caught in light rain five kilometers into the trip, and it lasted until I arrived.
Fatty (11:20)
Thank you.
Let's do it. It's why we're here, sorta.
Hottie (11:46)
I'm now sitting in my office, looking back admiringly at my bike as one should. Not surprisingly, I see my otherwise newly washed bike upon departure is no longer clean. I can see clear markings where dirt and road spray have collected, and other places where the bike is still clean. It makes me think, and here comes the question: can I use these streak marks of road spray to optimize the bike's aerodynamics? And how should I interpret those deposits?
Just a wild thought that hopefully leads to a rabbit hole and a it depends.
Josh (12:22)
Ooh, that's fun. Yeah, I see can see where he's going. Yeah, so in well well, it at the wind tunnel and ⁓ I'd never done it honestly on the road, but you see the F1 teams will at the track use a product called FlowViz. And FlowViz is a like a neon green pigment that's in like a very thin oil and you paint it on the front of a of things and then the
the wind will move it around and you can y get an idea of the flow over the ⁓ the surfaces. Personally I hate flowviz because of what it is. It's again like crushed fluorescent pigment in an oil. It is the messiest. I mean it's kinda like if you've Yeah, like yeah, like glitter or if you've ever worked with Carbon Black where, you know, you use like
Fatty (13:07)
So it's like glitter, basically. Yeah.
Josh (13:14)
an amount the size of a P and then for like two months you just keep finding it places that you're like, how the fuck did it get there? You know, yeah. Yeah, glitter, as my my wife calls it, the the herpes of crafting. You know, it's you you right it's you could never get rid of it. yeah, so th there's this product flow viz. And w what I would recommend, ⁓ so the problem with road spray is that
Fatty (13:18)
yeah, everywhere.
Ha ha.
Josh (13:40)
th the nature of the tires throwing the stuff back at weird non flow related angles and then the stuff wanting to drip means that you're gonna get ⁓ you're gonna get stuff in weird spots that are totally unrelated to the flow at hand. ⁓ and so what you need is a little bit of a little bit of viscosity in the flow vis that you're using. ⁓
so that the wind is moving it around, but it's not say, you know, you stop and then gravity just has it all dripping off as as it would with water, which is why they use oil ⁓ in the real stuff. So my personal recipe, ⁓ which is fun, I think I've taught this to now three or four wind tunnels around the world where they're like, like I think it's clever, are they is you take tide, just like regular tide detergent, right? It has that like little bit of a blue color to it.
But it contains some sort of whitening agent and I have no idea what it is, but it lights up, I mean, just bright, bright white under black light. And it has just about the right viscosity. ⁓ sometimes for lower cycling speeds you actually want to thin it just a hair, but I mean maybe like one part of water to ten parts tied would be about the thinnest you would want to get it. ⁓
But yeah, you can paint it on the front of surfaces and then go ride and come back and just, you know, you can buy a black light bulb off the Amazon or it they they sell at Target, you know, college kids put in their dorm rooms or whatever and yeah. And then you can kinda run around and look and see and it will it will map for you the the flow paths, which is which is really cool. Now, having said all that,
Fatty (15:24)
Wild.
Josh (15:28)
the the actual what you can do with that information is is really quite a bit harder. ⁓ you know, typically what you're seeing there is is where your you're able to find where your flow is attached and where your flow is separated. ⁓ and then what you would do with that information would generally be to change the shape ⁓ the the shape of the frame or the fork leg or the rim or the, you know, whatever you go, I can't really do it on a rim, I guess, but ⁓
you know, the if it's a helmet, ⁓ y you can use to say find a separation point and then you would go back into the CAD model and redesign the thing. So I think it would be certainly a fun a a fun exercise, but it would be really hard to make anything actionable ⁓
Hottie (16:02)
Mm.
Mm.
Josh (16:11)
come from it unless, you know, you're out there making, you know, your Damon Reinhard making ⁓ carbon fiber bicycle in your garage, in which case it could be super, super interesting. I'll I'll say the F1 guys, what they do with it is they run all their CFD and the CFD will give you like one of the things you can snap on is essentially like flow vis or flow visualization on your surfaces. And so you can have your predicted and then they run, you know, a lap or two at the track come in and they shoot
quick pictures of it and then you're able to overlay those and see if the things the C F D is predicting are what's actually happening and then that's gonna help the C F D people understand how how good their models are or if they need to maybe make certain changes to you know certain I mean if you've ever C F D'd there's like like thirty seven thousand like settings that can be adjusted and changed for all these various ⁓ you know di different types of turbulence models and
different surface roughness assumptions and and things like that. And so it the actual from the racetrack pictures can help you kind of figure out if your settings are correct or not.
Hottie (17:20)
There's a famous scene in Ford versus Ferrari where the Ford team attaches ribbons to the car and then they examine it going around the track to see how well it's performing aerodynamically. Are you saying here that the the better option would be to ⁓ to find something that you can put directly on the surface of your bicycle car, whatever that kind of puts streaks right on the surface? Is that the better option than than ribbons?
Josh (17:45)
Yeah, so that that's called tufting and and that works really well too. ⁓ tufting is I would say much better when you have large surfaces that you can work over 'cause the the tufts themselves, you just end up with a f with a very finite like number of data points, right? Each tuft can tell you
Is the flow attached and if so, what direction is that flow moving? And then it tells you when flow is detached, right? Because the tuft will go sideways or or backwards or whatever. ⁓ but
you know, the nature of that is you you can just only have so many, right? So you y you can say, well it's it's doing this up until this point and then it goes to shit essentially when it detaches. With the flow viz, you know, you basically have the entire surface becomes a data point. And you might find that, you know, and you know, th this part of something, you know, it remained attached, I don't know.
ten percent further along the chord length than it did in this other part and, you know, w why why might that be? Or, you know, you might you would be more likely to find ⁓
Yeah, I would say subtle local effects. And then also it will give you a a little bit better idea of like when things are going turbulent or separating, like if there's directionality there. So th one of the challenges with Tufts is they they kind of as we always would say, like they they're either stuck down and giving you nice directionality or they're apeshit, right? Like they're and and when they're ape shit, like, you know, they're just they're just
all over the place and
you know, what you might see if you were to say flow vis that is like, we had a separation, but due to a pre pressure differential, there you know, the the separation begins like a you know, maybe a clockwise sort of a of a spiral, or, you know, is it like a true sort of a vortex shedding where you're getting, you know, a little bit of like a uniform wavy back and forth ⁓ the the kind of sets up behind that and you know, is i is as we'd say like is it is it upwashing or downwashing, or is it inwashing or outwashing?
the flow vis will sort of leave that as a trace where with the tufting you you have to be alongside it as it's happening. And then, you know, if you were to take, you know, video of it and then ⁓ look at the video, you'd be like, Well, it's it's upwashing, then it's downwashing, then it's right, then it's this, then it's that. and so it just tufts are great, but they're just they're just much more finite in the amount of data that that
Hottie (20:11)
Mm.
Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Josh (20:19)
they can send back to you. But
but yeah, if like for aircraft wing, the rear, you know, like tufting for like, you know, the transition from like say the roof line to the the kind of rear window of a of a car, if it's like a fastback styled car or ⁓ something like that, tufts work really, really good. but yeah, then as it gets more complicated it probably makes sense to start
looking at something more like a flow viz. I like I said, I w ha have actually helped people like SCCA racers ⁓ you know, use the tide as a flow vis because, you the other benefit of it compared to real flow vis, which is a real bastard to clean off of a surface, is, you know, it when you're done with the tide flow viz, you you just spray it off, right? It's just soap. so yeah, it's it's easier easier I think at the front end and the back end. The only downside of it is you need the black light to
Hottie (21:02)
Yeah.
Right.
Josh (21:13)
to really light it up and see what you're looking at.
Fatty (21:15)
Or what if, hear me out, if you just started using ⁓ road spray like Jacob here. It it's it's right there, man. Just try trying to bring it back full circle. So is there anything Jacob can do with it the the pretty patterns of road spray on his down tube here? A anything he can interpret? Maybe use a start using a fender? I guess
Josh (21:21)
Yeah yeah. Yep.
Hottie (21:23)
Again it drips off. Hmm. ⁓
Josh (21:35)
I I would say no 'cause 'cause the vast
I think the vast majority of of what you're actually looking at there is is stuff that's being ⁓ essentially spat into the down tube by the wheel. ⁓ w whereas the the airflow itself is not has very little to do with that.
⁓ and then the other one I think yeah, you would you would probably wanna look at like where there are deposits and that would be like where you have more like positive pressures and then when there's nothing is where you're more likely to have negative pressures, but then you have to be careful that the the s top of the bike is gonna drip that stuff on the bottom half of the bike and so you're likely to find stuff in places that it it got there by gravity and not by airflow. So
Fatty (22:13)
Yeah.
Well, Jacob, at least
we did give you the rabbit hole. It's
Josh (22:23)
Yes, yes. So
so love love the concept and then your the the mental model here is spot on. Just pick a dry day and ⁓ make your own flow viz and ⁓ you'll you'll be able to learn a ton. write through some glitter. Or don't.
Fatty (22:38)
Yeah, or ride through some glitter. Yeah,
no, don't.
Not if you can avoid it. Yep, you'll find it forever. Marginal gains is supported by Shimano. If you're like our listener Jacob here and find yourself riding in various light and surface conditions, you should find your way to a lesser known product from Shimano, and that is its eyewear.
Josh (22:45)
That's that's never going away.
Fatty (23:02)
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Hottie (23:35)
Hey Josh, it was great catching up with you and Brendan as the two of you took ⁓ AJA on the road to Southern California. That was cool. ⁓ you guys made what stops in Santa Barbara, Torrance, Pasadena. And on the show here, we want to give a shout out to Jonathan, owner of the Dropout Cyclery in in Torrance for really embracing this whole idea of those in-person AJAs. Jonathan was totally prepared for this and down for it. he had surveys prepared where
Those in attendance were asked to guess how many times Josh might mention a particular marginal gains word or phrase like wax or pressure or rolling resistance. And there was also like bingo cards where guests would check off matching phrases made by Josh and win Silk Up prizes. So hats off to Jonathan and the team at the dropout, Josh. They were they were a lot of fun.
Fatty (24:23)
Josh is a party game. Congratulations, Josh.
Josh (24:23)
yeah, that my goodness. Yeah, that that was so unexpected
and so awesome. I mean I I probably do
I don't know, twenty, twenty-five of these events a year. nah, maybe thirty some years. And I I've never I mean, I think we had I think we expected fifty and got seventy something people or maybe a few. I mean it became standing room only and my god, everybody was having fun and calling bingo and ⁓ it was yeah, i it was really unexpected and a really, really good time. ⁓ and I I think as we've said on the show before, I mean the
Hottie (24:44)
Mm-hmm.
That was great.
Josh (25:02)
People who showed up and asked questions, holy smokes, the level of the questions that we get these days are so good, ⁓ and just so thoughtful.
Hottie (25:09)
Well, I meant to warn ya I
meant to warn you that that area has a lot of aerospace or did or still still does and rocket engineers. So what you saw were was a cross section of a lot of engineers and and that type of folk who really have a deep understanding of what you're talking about. ⁓ mostly in the context of flying planes or launching rockets, but yeah, it's a it's a great crowd down there.
Josh (25:17)
Yeah, yeah.
Hottie (25:34)
and they they really do have an appreciation for what you do and and all that is marginal gains. So that was great. ⁓ Yeah. Mm-hmm. And something quickly, Josh, that we wanna give a shout out to, and that is ⁓ some more new things happening with Silca and that is marginal gains media. That's officially been launched, correct?
Josh (25:41)
Yeah. Yeah, the whole thing was just so impressive. And and a and a ton of fun. I mean really just a lot of fun.
it's officially been soft launched, yeah. So if you go to the Silka website, there's now a tab that says MG Media. ⁓ yeah, and that's we'll we'll probably be launching a video on this, but you know, we we're no longer working with GCN ⁓ this year by by choice as you know just the the the cost to to keep going goes up every year. And
Hottie (26:00)
Okay.
Josh (26:22)
it eventually hits a point where we're like, well, shit, for for the kind of money they want, we could just start our own thing and ⁓ that and talk about stories that we want to talk about. And and quite frankly, you know, most of the stories that we're talking about there aren't I mean a little bit like this show, like they're maybe tangentially Silka, but it's not just it's not the Silka news channel, it's the marginal gains media channel. So yeah, we're we are filling that up now. We've we've hired two people and we are filling that or beginning to fill it with stories.
and some video content ⁓ about things that we find interesting and some of our athletes and yeah if you guys have seen the the our YouTube channel, we've done now I think three like beautiful documentary style videos, one with Dylan Johnson, one with Paige Onweller. my brain's escaping me what the first one was the the guy who did the
the double like marathon th whatever. I mean that would that was crazy. ⁓ but really just trying to put out quality, beautiful content that's not, you know, no ads, no pop ups, no Yeah, I just find myself getting frustrated with the state of media and think that we eventually can grow something and do it a little bit better and a little bit more interesting than
Hottie (27:17)
right. Yep.
Fatty (27:18)
Mm.
Josh (27:42)
what others are doing. So it's it's the very early days. We've only been at it coup literally a couple of weeks, but ⁓ planning to scale it and grow it and I I'm excited to see where it goes.
Hottie (27:52)
Yeah.
Fatty (27:52)
Well, I would say that at least the the flagship podcast of marginal gains media has been around for more than a hundred episodes. So it it's more than it's been more than a couple of weeks. We were marginal gains media before there was marginal gains media. We're the most marginal of all marginal gains media. ⁓ but there was a second another launch I wanted to talk ⁓ talk with you about. ⁓ tell us about the new bags.
Josh (28:03)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's right. That's right.
gosh. ⁓ yeah, I've been traveling, so my brain is a little bit fried. Yeah, we did the ⁓ Matone Web and the Maritona Web. y you know, two bags really kind of answering questions and r and requests from our customers. So the Matone Web is a kind of a more scalable sized seat bag. It's got webbing in the side and it can be made very small or
Fatty (28:28)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (28:48)
Bigger than medium sized. I I'm not gonna say very big, but ⁓ i it's got a BOA dial that allows you to, you know, kind of i well, and the way we've used the Velcro, yeah, you can basically make it, you know, hold two CO two tubes and or two CO twos and a TPU tube. You could expand it out to hold six TPU tubes and, you know, ⁓ electrico ultimate or something. ⁓ and and then it's mesh sided.
which was a request from a lot of the off road people who, you know, I think ⁓ y y you just can never make something fully, fully waterproof without making it like a roll down top, you know, air sealed, seam sealed. and and so we had a lot of off road people asking for something like, hey, we don't care if the the w dirt and water are gonna get in there, th they just also need to come out. And ⁓ and so this was also done in a way that you can you hook the BOA ⁓ strap
Fatty (29:35)
Mm.
Josh (29:42)
either over the saddle rails or pull it out of the kind of loop that it's in and then use it to pinch it against, say, a seat post or under a top tube, as a lot of the off-road guys do. And so, you know, if you're somebody who today is, you know, using electrical tape to wrap your your spare kit to your your seat post or under the your top tube, this is a perfect product for that 'cause you can essentially replicate that attachment method ⁓ with you know with without having to
rip the electrical tape apart when you actually need need to get in there. So yeah, so that's ⁓ actually been really really well received, particularly I'd say in off road. But and then the Maritona Web is building on our famous Maritona backpack travel pack. it's like a forty five liter fits the TSA maximum legal carry on ⁓
volume and it's got webbing in a front, like a cool expandable front web that you can stash away or pull out and attach magnetically with fidlocks to become a kind of a piggyback style ⁓ helmet holder. and so, you know, the matone the original Maritona bag had a total cult following and then we s ended up not being able to make it
during COVID due to some problems with some hardware and that we couldn't get everything and ⁓ and then the factory we were working with ⁓ ended up closing down ⁓ d kind of at the end of COVID when things got a little bit crazy. And so this is one we've actually built up with with with a new supplier and we're using lighter weight ⁓ ultra high end rip stops. I mean really just it it's a beautiful bag. It's about half the weight of the old Maritona, but
has almost all the same features. The dedicated shoe bag, the, you know, helmet bag, the water ⁓ proof area for your, you know, your wet dirty crap, right? Your ⁓ anti-static microfiber lined pouch for your electronics. and then a bunch of other I think clever little little features and stubble backpack straps and stuff like that. So yeah, anyway, it's ⁓ some fun products that it's always fun when you can
work through a product development and then a launch and really the basis of that was a couple hundred customer emails and online comments where we're like, okay, they like that and they they want to see that changed and so these are both products that really were kind of developed directly out of customer feedback, which which is fun 'cause, you know, a lot of our products are a little bit out there and we launch them and people are like, What the hell is that? you know
You want me to do what with my chain? You know, and then it's years of us being like, No, no, it's cool, try it. ⁓ this this one is like, hey, they want this and they want that and they want that other thing. Let's give it to ⁓ So
Fatty (32:33)
I
will say that I just got back from Breckenridge, where all of my luggage was carried in the original Maritona bag. ⁓ and Lisa's was as well. So it's yeah, those of us who have them love them. And I will check out the new one. But I gotta tell you, my loyalty is still with this, with the original one. I I love that here's here's my favorite feature of the original. You could unzip it and it will lay.
Josh (32:52)
I think
Fatty (33:03)
flat and you could use it as a mat for changing clothes. ⁓ a very we I mean that seems like sort of a strange use case, but I mean you're traveling you know you're starting a ride and you're changing clothes in a dirt parking lot. It is really nice to have something nice to stand on that is just you know also was holding all of your clothes and your helmet and your shoes.
Josh (33:06)
Yep. Yep. Kept it. We yep.
Yeah.
Fatty (33:29)
and everything. And then it was a laundry basket afterward. I mean it's so I don't know. It's
Josh (33:31)
Right. Right. Yeah, no, that I that's a good example. That's a feature
that I just you look at the reviews and the like people were just like, I love this about this. And yeah, so in our our beginnings of this new design we're like, we have to keep so that's that's in there exactly as it was ⁓ in in the version that you that you love 'cause 'cause people really seem to appreciate it. ⁓ so very fun.
Fatty (33:40)
Mm.
Yeah. I guess I've had it for
so you you started making that before COVID. So I've had that luggage for s seven years now, I guess? Wow. Okay.
Josh (34:02)
gosh, yeah, I think I think yeah, I think we I wanna say twenty sixteen
was so ten ten years? Yeah, yeah.
Fatty (34:10)
All right. Yeah. I man, okay. So and
it's as good as it was when I first got it. Okay. Anyway, I I'm gonna try the new one. I'm just saying that it's gonna hurt the old one's feelings. So all right. So we have a voicemail question. It ⁓ this was from Northern Virginia for you, Josh. It caught called in to the marginal gains hotline at three one seven three four three four five zero six.
Hottie (34:21)
Yeah.
Josh (34:22)
Yeah.
Fatty (35:26)
Now, Josh, I I know that for a while at least, nitrogen was all the rage. ⁓ it still is in tires ⁓ in cars, I think, but that's because they're big molecules, right? And so they don't leach out of tubes. And so the pressure that you put in sort of remains the pressure that you have. But I think this question is more about impact on performance, beyond ⁓ you know, duration of inflation.
Josh (35:54)
Yeah, yeah. We so the a lot of stuff going on there. But yeah, so the nitrogen in car tires and and even I mean some people use it in their cycling tires, r really the primary benefits are the the big molecules that don't wanna escape across ⁓ or I mean the the cool chemistry reality is like they don't go into solution with the rubbers and then cross across. They don't diffuse out that way. ⁓
Which is kinda cool. So like I think, you know, the mental model had forever been, you know, the the molecule is bigger than the microscopic holes in the tube, but it's actually that it it doesn't it's like CO two. It actually goes into like solution almost with the rubber and then it'll it's allowed to cross because you have a a differential from the inside to the outside. nitrogen is is much less prone to that and it's a nice fat molecule. ⁓ the other benefit for automotive tires with nitrogen is that it's completely dry.
And so, you know, you think of especially you know, cheaper cars maybe not so much anymore, but having steel wheels, ⁓ and even some of the early aluminum wheels, ⁓ you know, you're filling your tire in a very humid environment with compressed ⁓
you know, ⁓ an air compressor and that air compressor's probably got, you know, a half liter of water sitting in the bottom of it from all the condensation of the air it's been pumping. And and so you can you can actually end up with really high humidity humidity kind of just it's a shitty environment, right, for the wheel. ⁓ and it's not doing any favors to the to the rubber either, ⁓ in in the car tire. So yeah. So but the the big answer to this is yes. And the gas that we have found to be fastest, and I say there there's
There's
some pretty good studies and stuff that have been done out there around tennis balls in particular. but the gas you really want to look at is Argonne. And I would say for our really critical hour record attempts and some other, you know, Tour de France winning ⁓
days and and things like that that we will use argon. And and the beauty of argon fr from my perspective, even more than more so than it's fast and it's dry and it's a nice size molecule and it doesn't effuse across the tire. ⁓ it actually can take a water two or three out of the rolling resistance of a tire ⁓ because it
Hottie (37:59)
Mm.
Josh (38:17)
⁓ essentially like if you think of it from the molecules perspectives, as it's being compressed and released, it's it's picking it it's picking up less heat, right? It it doesn't heat as easily. ⁓ and so it's just more efficient when it's ⁓ compressed and then re expanded than other than other gases are. So yeah, you want well, and then what I was gonna say the the the thing I really love about argon is it is the most common welding gas
Fatty (38:43)
Mm.
Josh (38:43)
⁓ used to isolate welds. And so you don't have to travel with it because you know, we can, you know, go to ⁓ go to Mexico for an hour record attempt and if you can find a welding store, which there's one pretty close by, you can get Argon. yeah, so look at Argon. It's ⁓ a fascinating gas and it is literally watts faster per tire than anything else. I I'll tell you a funny story, one of the gases that
Fatty (38:46)
It's available, yeah.
Josh (39:13)
Is a little bit kind of famous in engineering circles, is called sulfur hexafluoride. And it ⁓ for a brief period was actually being put into tennis balls to make them bouncier. ⁓ and it's a big molecule, it didn't want to come out. But what they found over time is that it actually wants to absorb oxygen.
And so over time, your sulfur hexafluoride tennis ball that was nice and pressurized and bouncy would actually, it's the opposite of our inner tube. It would actually pull gas in from outside of the ball and the pressure would just continue going up until the balls would explode. And so there's there's stories out there of like, you know, people like, you know, i in their homes having like a case of these and they just start popping off one day, or or you know, retailers who like come in overnight and there's just like all these tennis ball canisters have like flown off the
shelves as they've exploded from having this the this unique gas in there. And so needless to say, they they didn't do that for v very long. But
Hottie (40:06)
Mm.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Fatty (40:16)
So
in the Peloton, it in ⁓ the pr ⁓ in the Tour de France, how many tires are filled with Argon? Are they all filled with Argon or is it just for certain, you know, for certain teams, certain days? ⁓ when?
Josh (40:26)
No no
⁓ certain teams, certain days.
Fatty (40:33)
Okay. ⁓ I I won't say what teams because that's probably IP that you don't want to share, but on what days? When do you use Argon versus not? Is it better for time trials? Better for climbing? What?
Josh (40:38)
Yeah.
It's just faster. I mean yeah, it's it it's just faster. So Yeah, it's just it it adds it does add some considerable complexity, t yeah, to the everyday life of the mechanics, right? And so, you know, certainly you're getting it ⁓ you know, I'd say the the critical the guys who are winning the tour are using it for time trials and mountain stages and may maybe every day. You know, I would say we're we are
Fatty (40:47)
Mm-hmm. So would you ever not use it if you have it available?
Okay.
Josh (41:17)
Today with Argon probably where we were with Chainwax four or five years ago, where it was viewed as a really pretty narrow use special occasion sort of a thing. And ⁓ I I if I had to guess, ⁓ and you know, w we're certainly putting a little bit of work into it with some of the teams we work with and some of the athletes, but you know, maybe four or five years from now, ⁓ maybe that's totally
totally the norm. You know, I it it it does create some additional headaches and, you know, argon the bottles are big and heavy and the gas is in there at a couple thousand Psi and you've gotta regulate it down to something more reasonable and then get it in the tire and then use a gauge to bleed it back. And so, you know, there's just i it is a lot of extra time and energy and work. And, you know, I would say like with chain wax, one of the the things that really allowed that to kind of explode in the Peloton was
Hottie (42:02)
Hmm.
Josh (42:12)
You know, the the mechanics initially were like, it's so much work, it's such a pain in the ass, it's so difficult.
And and then with time as they did it and expanded the riders who were getting the wax chains, they're like, actually we're saving as much time cleaning the bikes as we adding with the chain waxing and you know, I'll I'll I'll tell you the I mean the thing that I think really like blew it up at at Visma and kind of pushed them over the edge to like go official with us was the mechanics between them were like, you know, we never have to de squeal brakes anymore. Right? Like once you can get be rid of oil based lube, like
Hottie (42:38)
Okay.
Josh (42:48)
You kinda never have squealy brakes. And you know, people don't think about oil based lubes and squeal squealy brakes, but you know, you ride your bike with your oil chain, I mean even a synergetic chain or you know, from me, and you know, there's oil on your hub, right? Don't think it's not fine it's not finding ways to get splattered ⁓
Hottie (42:51)
Mm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-mm.
Josh (43:10)
over onto other things like brake rotors and pads.
And and so I would say that that was sort of an interesting groundswell where the mechanics were like, no, wait, actually this is just different, but it it's actually saving us time and energy, so we'll accept it at scale. you know, I would say Argon is definitely not mature enough to be that thing just yet. But yeah, I think if you you had the teams willing to invest, y you could, you know, I don't know, a couple thousand dollars per truck.
Hottie (43:39)
Mm.
Josh (43:40)
and some other equipment, we we could probably get there pretty quickly.
Hottie (43:43)
Hm.
Fatty (43:44)
So something to watch in the
Hottie (43:45)
Yeah.
Fatty (43:45)
in the future. Argon's inert, right? Okay. Okay. Which is nice.
Josh (43:48)
Yeah. N noble gas. Yeah. Yeah. It's good
stuff. That's Yeah, no, it'd be it'd be crazy if it were like, yeah, we gotta use you know, s nitromethane gas is like the the fastest thing ever. You just might die.
Hottie (43:54)
Okay.
Ha ha ha.
Fatty (44:06)
I'm just remembering
and you guys are both old enough that you might remember th those those big canisters for mountain bikes, ⁓ mountain bike tires that you could carry that were in fact I were they propane or methane? ⁓ I can't remember, but it was a flammable gas.
Hottie (44:14)
Yeah.
Josh (44:16)
yeah.
yeah, I don't rem Yeah, yeah. And they
Hottie (44:24)
Yeah.
Josh (44:25)
would explode in like your car if they got too much sunlight and yeah, that with hindsight that I mean, I I guess as all three of us Gen Xers, you're like, that's just how shit was back then, you know? It's like do you do you remember the I I always think of the ⁓ happy fun ball, the SNL skit of happy happy fun ball, but it was like, you know, don't throw happy fun ball, don't drop it. And then one of the rules is do not taunt happy funball.
Fatty (44:27)
Ha ha ha.
Hottie (44:27)
Cheese.
Fatty (44:34)
Uh-huh. No seat belts.
Hottie (44:35)
Good.
Yes.
Josh (44:52)
So
Hottie (44:52)
Okay, back
to aerodynamics. this one concerns wheels and mountain bike wheels. ⁓ John in Oregon had this question. I have a question that some may find silly, but I've been thinking a lot about the aerodynamics of mountain bike racing, and I'm considering building a set of deep section wheels for my XC bike. My races are usually two to three hours, and some of them are in some really windy, exposed conditions. I'm thinking of something like thirty mil internal width and maybe forty to fifty
fifty millimeter deep and bl with bladed spokes. My friends tell me it doesn't matter because a sixty millimeter mount bike tire is too wide. I contend the aero benefit would still be measurable, if not as important, as it is with a smaller tire. Who is right?
Josh (45:40)
⁓ he's right and John is right. yeah, you know, the the wider the rim and the deeper the rim, the better off it is. You know, now if you're really really optimizing at the most marginal end, y y the friends are right in that y you've gotta have the w rim wider than the tire or at least the equal width.
But no, I we've done a ton of studies on this, with our gravel athletes as well as ⁓ some Dylan Johnson and and Keegan and those guys who are doing this for their mountain bikes. Yeah, I mean you want the deepest, widest rim you're willing to ride, and if you can get ⁓ bladed spokes at a weight that works for you, you know, the the the downside of XC is that it it certainly is slower
generally even than gravel. So arrow is less ⁓ less of a factor, but it it's not a non factor. I mean it it it's absolutely something. ⁓ so yeah, I I mean I would go for well, I I mean we just
video I think somewhere on this, but like, you know, the the zip three three thing with the thirty two internal was the fastest thing going. And then Envy brought the thirty five internal out and it's a couple watts faster. ⁓ and that's with fifty five and sixty millimeter tires. So, you know, yeah, I'd I'd probably be riding that Envy thing, ⁓ or the zip one. and then I look at that and and, you know, to me I'm just like why why the hell aren't we just making the forty five mil internal? 'Cause that's like
That's what we need. Like that's that's the future. ⁓ you know, forty five mil internal will one hundred percent be faster than anything on the market today, even if the rim shape is bad, ⁓ just because of of what it's doing in that that airflow behind the tire. ⁓ and then yeah, ride it as deep as you're willing to go. You know, a lot of people are still like weight sensitive, so go as deep as you're willing to think there and then yeah, a nice ⁓
Hottie (47:15)
Yeah.
Josh (47:44)
Who is it? Alpina, I think, just launched. it's kinda like it's like a s even lighter than a C X ray bladed spoke. ⁓ that is pretty cool. And then, you know, you certainly I mean, there's a lot of these companies out there ⁓ with the carbon bladed spokes that are that are super light as well. So ⁓ yeah, I the th the products exist and ⁓ you absolutely are probably looking at
two to six watts per wheel ⁓ at a at a fast cross country speed.
Hottie (48:23)
Fa how fast?
Josh (48:26)
I mean, you know, thirty K an hour. ⁓ thir Yeah, thirty thirty five. So, you know, not and again, I think that's where, you know, i if you look at a like an XC race, well, and certainly pro XC racing, like those dudes are flipping fast. R right, that's like a whole other thing. But yeah, I mean it depends kind of what you're you're doing. But yeah, if you're in that that s sort of range, ⁓ or faster
Hottie (48:29)
Eighteen miles an hour. Okay. Yeah.
They're flying, yeah.
Josh (48:52)
you know, you're you're gonna see some benefit from it. And and I would say this this is a benefit that kind of falls into that asymmetric, you know, like when there's the benefit, it'll be a solid benefit. And when you're slow enough that there's not a benefit, there's also really probably little to know
penalty to it for the the grams that you're you're picking up for it. Right. I think it's back to the we we continue to overindex on the importance of w of weight. ⁓ where really, you know, even at those speeds I'd I mean hell, honestly the the ⁓ rolling resistance benefit probably offsets the weight and then some, right? Of having the tire present as a ⁓
as a wider tire than it otherwise would be. You also could probably use that to offset some of the weight. you know, a 55 millimeter tire on a 35 millimeter internal probably runs at the same width as a sixty millimeter tire on a thirty, right? So you can actually probably go down a tire size to get a similar effective tire diameter or cross-sectional diameter. ⁓
And and that would also you probably make up a little bit of the little bit of weight for you as well.
Fatty (50:10)
All right, Josh, I think my favorite Silka YouTube video ever was your recent opinion piece where you went apoplectic on the Lorena Vebus removal from the zero. Listeners, if you have not seen the most even killed CEO in cycling ever go ballistic, please.
Hottie (50:33)
Mm.
Fatty (50:35)
Please,
I implore you, go to Silka's YouTube channel and watch. it is titled The Most Ridiculous DQ in Cycling. It ends with a question mark, but it was not stated as if it were a question mark. ⁓ so I I admit I mostly just want to wind you up on this topic, but friend of the show, sweet in Los Angeles helped oblige me on this by texting in this question to the marginal gains hotline, 317-343-4506. He says, as you know.
Josh (50:50)
Okay. Okay.
Fatty (51:04)
Vebus was thrown out of the zero for her bike being 20-ish grams under the UCI weight limit. In the era of wax chains, how much weight could you expect to lose from a freshly waxed chain? If you pull the chain out, just as the wax is solidifying, some decent chunks stay stuck in the chain and are shed during the first ride. Could that equate to 20 grams or more? ⁓ so Josh.
Can a bike lose twenty grams in wax, sealant, or other material during a ride? And how much is twenty grams anyway?
Josh (51:36)
⁓ man. Yeah, that that that's a good question. So i you couldn't lose it from wax. ⁓ even if you pull the chain really late and you as we call it, make a candle out of it, y you're probab you're not gonna get to twenty grams of wax and then you're still gonna have wax that's in there. I it's a typical wax chain consumes five to six grams of wax. ⁓ I will say we we get quite a few people in our inbox who
Fatty (51:57)
Mm.
Josh (52:02)
are just beside themselves that we would recommend hot waxing a chain with hollow pins because of all the weight of wax that's in the pin. And so we we actually did it and pushed all those little wax cores out onto a scale and found that it was point eight of a gram. So
And so it's always fun to go back and be like, You're right, we're such stupid bastards. Like, I can't believe you know. But ⁓ you know, but hey, if if you want to push it out, push it out. It's point eight of a gram. That has meaning to somebody. I personally don't care. ⁓ but yeah, you're you're talking five to six and you know, when it w all the stuff on the extern the external stuff on the chain gets scraped off, comes off, you still probably have three, four grams of that in the chain. ⁓
Fatty (52:23)
You
Thank you, thank you for saving us.
Josh (52:50)
So you're not gonna lose it there. Now you could lose it from sealant, ⁓ pr pretty easily, right? If you had a puncture that you lost the majority of your sealant, 'cause you're you're easily putting I mean, I we recommend as a as a minimum like, you know, forty grams of sealant. you know, thirty, forty ml. I mean it's it's not qu
quite a one-to-one like water would be. But yeah, I mean there's thirty, forty grams of sealant in a in in a tire. And so yeah, if you lose the majority of your sealant and it seals at that last little that last little bit, the that's that's certainly a a place where you could lose it. But yeah, I I was a little apoplectic on that. And and the the big one was I you know, following a lot of racing
Hottie (53:29)
Hello.
Josh (53:35)
And looking at the history of this sport and how just terrible this sport has been to itself and how terrible the governing body of the sport has been to the sport and the the athletes, right? I mean I I I think, you know, it's it's not unfair or inaccurate of me to say that, you know, the UCI does not give a flying fuck about any cyclist, right? They absolutely don't give a shit about any of us.
they do give a shit about money, right? And I think that's that's what makes me so so angry with this is, you know, you have these people who, you know, one of the best descriptions I ⁓ you know, ever heard was actually from someone I won't name 'cause 'cause it w would come back. But he you know, hey, you gotta think of this. Like every one of these people were like a parent in a local club who
gained enough power to become like the head of a regional club and then maybe a a national federation and then kept going to become to the top. And the reality is that none of them have any experience running anything, managing anything. There's no vision, right? It's all about protecting their own power and and and making money, right? Yeah. Well yeah, they're they're yeah, I mean they're all yeah, they're they're T ball moms and dads who
Fatty (54:44)
So they're like soccer parents, but worse. So it's
Josh (54:53)
Who also were very interested in accumulating power as T ball moms and dads, right? I mean, i if I think about it, it's like the worst possible combination of things, right? It's I mean, quite frankly, it's it's it's i they're politicians. They're just politicians w with a sports angle, right, rather than a ⁓ government angle. ⁓ but I think that's what's led to this.
Fatty (55:04)
We've all met those people.
Josh (55:15)
Yeah y and I say, like I've I have been in the rooms with with these people. I mean, I've probably been in Egla in front of the UCI I don't know, eight, ten times. I talk about sitting across trying to sit across the table from Jean Vautier, who was just, you know, a furniture ergonomics expert who got put in charge of all of the technology of cycling w while knowing nothing about cycling, who couldn't understand that that
ballast in the bike didn't equate to the the structural strength of the b right. I mean it it's just it's just madness. ⁓ and so when when they do stuff that actively hurts the sport, and and you know, I say in the video, I mean, like like this this is not cheating, right? Like this is somebody fucked up, right? And and it's not her. Like she's not prepping her own her own bike. Right? She didn't go out there and go like, ooh, I'm gonna sneak twenty grams off this bike. I mean this is a a a mechanic
Hottie (56:06)
Mm.
Josh (56:13)
Just fucked up, right? And ⁓ or it could be a scale error, and that's the other one, you know, when you really push on it, I mean that their scale uncertainty is also twenty grams. ⁓ right? And and
Hottie (56:14)
Mm-hmm.
Fatty (56:24)
Right. So it it this is simply
a margin of error, po I mean, possibly.
Hottie (56:28)
Mm. Sure.
Josh (56:29)
Yeah. Yeah. So so there was just a lot of stuff in there that that's bullshit. But you know, you think of all the other sports, right, where you know, and I it's certainly not to condone it, but you know, you you get caught doping or, you know, with sex shit or whatever in any other sport, they f they find tasteful ways to deal with that, right? You you go on leave. They it and again, not saying that that's okay, but they know how to protect the sport. Right? I mean, you think of like the Operation Puerto.
Like like a third or a quarter of the athletes in Puerto were cyclists, and the rest were soccer players and tennis players. Well, soccer didn't get blown up over that. Tennis didn't get blown up over that, right? There aren't there aren't parents out there going, I'll never let my kid play tennis because it's they're all a bunch of dopers. Well, yeah, but there were more tennis playing dopers than cyclists in Operation Puerto, right? I mean, you know, when Tiger Woods
crashed his car when his wife was chasing him with the golf club for his actions, right? He'd just come back from the doctor where he was getting human growth hormone and blood transfusions, right? Which is leak legal in golf because they don't fucking care. Right? Like the they're like, don't make golf look bad. ⁓ so I mean I just struggle with that in like we need accountability and i we need we need accountability.
But we also need to at least somehow try to keep the sport from just looking like a bunch of idiots who have no idea what they're doing. Because the reality is, I think it is kind of a bunch of idiots who don't what they're doing. ⁓ so yeah, so then that just yeah, that really I I struggle with that on a bunch of levels, but for them to kick her out of the whole race for what ultimately was some mechanics oversight that had no
Fatty (58:17)
Uh-huh.
Josh (58:23)
performance advantage at all is just the dumbest thing ever. I mean, relegate her to the back, right? She her bike was her bike was underweight. You didn't win that stage, even, you know, like c clearly. But don't don't kick her out of the right? I mean, a and you know, and I'll say, this is the same organization that knew Armstrong was doping forever and and was complicit in it and covered it up. And so, you know, that's the other, like, pick one. Right? If you're if you're gonna be a dirty sport like all the other sports, then be a dirty sport and
Fatty (58:48)
Mm.
Josh (58:52)
at least protect the sport. but they just seem to find a way to do the worst of all things always. It's like whenever there's a fork in a road, they're like, which of these is the worst possible thing we can do? Let's take that one, right? Yeah, which which one of these ends up at a cliff that we can go off of like Thelman Louise and just ends up in flames 'cause like we're picking that one. And
Hottie (59:06)
Ha ha ha ha.
Fatty (59:06)
Which one goes off the cliff? Let's
Because that's our road.
Josh (59:17)
I so yeah, I apoplectic's a good word. I I the whenever I talk about it, I just find myself just spinning, right? Because there's no, you know, our sport is shrinking, there's less participation, the races are more dangerous than they've ever been. but not because of this. I mean it it's like their stupid thing with SRAM, right? I I y you guys know how much I hate the tent-toothed cog, but my god, they're they're trying to kill SRAM's.
gear ratios or whatever because it's making the rides too fast and too dangerous. And then you you just have to sit with at dinner with any group of riders and they're like, yeah, it's not making it as dangerous as the fucking traffic furniture in every little town we go into. And you know, like, yeah, well, let's they're gonna come in here at fifty five K an hour. Let's make sure we put a a policeman standing in the middle of the road with a flag, you know, for that. Like there's solutions to that. They they
Hottie (59:58)
Yeah.
Fatty (1:00:00)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (1:00:15)
Could either change routes, right? I mean, we've seen a couple times last year where there's, you know, let's put a ninety degree corner at at two hundred and fifty meters from the finish line. You know, like ⁓ th yeah. It
Fatty (1:00:28)
There are solutions
and they're not taking them. Yeah. This isn't accountability. This is punishment. Yeah.
Josh (1:00:30)
Yeah. Yes, I I I
think from the outside you have to look in and say, are there any actions being taken here that would make me believe in any possible way that these people care even in the slightest about the sport or the athletes? And the answer to both of those is no.
Right. At every turn you're like, That's about money. That's about money, right? That's about protecting your own power. ⁓ but it but again, they're these are the politicians of sports and you know, sadly their their job isn't to give a shit about anybody, right? It's a it's to care about themselves and maintaining their power. And ⁓ and as long as that's that's the case, we're all Yeah, we're all stuck, you know, and and writers will continue to have
career ending accidents because courses aren't safe and and yet, you know, I'm gonna get a shitty letter because I put ⁓ rainbow stripes on a sock. right? Or or the thing with ⁓ the the journalist guy, what's his name? Benji, ⁓ who got got a letter from them, like very subtly, not so subtly threatening legal action because they he talked bad about them. Right? Like I mean, you know, I think that
Fatty (1:01:28)
Yeah.
Hope they don't hear this podcast.
Josh (1:01:49)
Yeah, I mean bring it, right? I mean
I bring it. Like, you know, this is America, First Amendment, bitch. Like I mean like I I don't wanna go there, but like, yeah, it's it's my right to not like you and to say I don't like you and and I'm yeah, that probably comes back to me and I mean, who knows, you know, maybe they go tell teams we work with we can't work with them or something, but I mean I guarantee if they do, that'll what an awesome story that would be. ⁓
Fatty (1:01:55)
Yeah.
Hottie (1:02:14)
Yeah, yeah.
Fatty (1:02:15)
Yeah.
Josh (1:02:17)
But again, I think that that again speaks to the the lack of thought about the sport, right? I mean it's you know, sending a letter to a guy for what he said on Twitter threatening to sue him. ⁓ it just continues to make our sport look like a clown show. And and I hate that, right? 'Cause this this sport is beautiful. Right? This sport is amazing. And I think of the the sport that I grew up watching and
Fatty (1:02:28)
Brother.
Josh (1:02:43)
climbing in the mountains at the tour and the the visual I mean there's no other sport that it's as close to the to the spectators, right? It it that's as close to like the nature that the the there's nothing like it. And it should be this yeah, amazing and beautiful thing and they just keep finding ways to make it look to make it all look stupid and corrupt and dirty and all these other things. ⁓ and dangerous.
Fatty (1:03:12)
Yeah.
Josh (1:03:12)
Right.
And dangerous. So yeah, it's ⁓ we we we need better people at the top and we need better leadership and we need somebody somebody thinking about the big picture and the long term picture that's beyond how how do I how do I just hold on to my power or make more money or or whatever ⁓ in the next year.
Hottie (1:03:41)
Patty, why don't you go ahead and wrap
Fatty (1:03:45)
Yeah, we're real close to an hour. Okay. We'll go ahead and wrap it. sweet. Thank you for ⁓ delivering on your ⁓ on your one-two punch for winding Josh up with me. Hey, we want to hear all your questions. Whether they wind Josh up or not, here's how to submit them. Text or call the marginal gains hotline 317-3434506. You can also comment on this or any episode at silka.cc and clicking on that mg ⁓
Hottie (1:03:47)
Yeah. Yeah.
Josh (1:03:58)
Mm-hmm.
Fatty (1:04:15)
tab at the top, the this which has been soft launch as we understand. The other address we've been giving out for years, marginal gainspodcast.cc still works, but you will find even more marginal gains content by just entering through the Silk website.
Josh (1:04:33)
And we'll be back soon with more questions, answers, maybe another apoplectic rant. And more. Thanks again for listening to Marginal Gains.
Fatty (1:04:40)
Yeah.
All right.