Leadville Trail 100 Bike Tech

SHOW TRANSCRIPT:

Hottie (00:00)
Okay, we're back with Paige Onweller. Paige, great episode on Marginal Gains. We learned all about your preparation and how detailed it is. I think I maybe I went a little overboard with how how much I glowed about your meticulous preparation. But it's something to be admired, and we're gonna talk about that as it pertains to Leadville. But first, what's your what's kind of your track record here at Leadville? What's your experience? How well have you done?

Paige Onweller (00:23)
Yeah, so last year I was top ten. I think I was eighth place. I'm hoping to move up this year because they take out power line. I'm not normally a great descender on the mountain bike given that I'm fairly new to, you know, racing bikes in general. so yeah, sometimes the technical sections cause me to close gaps that I have to work a little harder. So this year the course definitely favors me and I'm hoping to be in the top five this year. So

Hottie (00:50)
And it f and it favors you well explain that further. I mean w there's course changes, there's more pavement, how does that favor you?

Paige Onweller (00:56)
Yeah, so normally power line is a pretty big separator. I can be pretty near the front of the group over the first, you know, climb or two and then as a big gap that opens up on power line descent. It's probably the more s it's the most steep technical section. and then yeah, I just have to work so much harder all the way up through Columbine. So they've removed that technical section both going down and up. So there's less climbing, more road. so yeah, it definitely favors more of a non mountain biker, I would say. So

Hottie (01:25)
In addition to new a new course, we have a new rule which is no drop bars. Were you a drop bar

Paige Onweller (01:30)
Yes,

last year I rode drop bars.

Hottie (01:32)
Yeah.

Paige Onweller (01:34)
I loved it. Yeah. I mean I like I said I'm not much of a mountain biker. I would say ninety five percent of my training is on a drop bar bike, whether that's the road bike or gravel bike. So I honestly thought like the supercal drop bar bike was a lot of fun and it felt more like home 'cause I'm just so used to how those drop bars feel. so yeah, the flat tops are a little like it's just more foreign to me 'cause I don't ride this bike very often.

Hottie (01:57)
Well, you gotta write in this year. Yeah, I think we failed to mention during the podcast that you are a Trek pro writer. You ride for the team Driftless.

Paige Onweller (02:06)
Yep, truck driftless. This is my fourth year with the team. So I've been with them a long time, basically ever since I've won Big Sugar back in twenty twenty two.

Hottie (02:13)
So you know their product line quite well. Yep. I am looking at a Pro Caliber folks. That's a hardtail. Yes. you're you're one of the few. Yeah. Page. Why a hardtail?

Paige Onweller (02:25)
So it's funny, I had my supercal here and I was pre-riding and then I kind of saw the course changes and I actually think that this could be a good year for the ProCal. You know, it's kind of I'm on the fence. A supercal, I have a hundred mil fork on the front and then a pro cal, I put a 110, so there's a bit more suspension on the front end here. but yeah, like you have to build your race bike to where you think you can excel.

I already know that I'm not the best descender. So some people might think, well, get a full suspension bike and you might descend better, but I've tested both and it doesn't always help me. And so this bike will help me stay with the lead group on the steep sections and the climb. It's about three pounds lighter. and yeah, I think you know, I'm also running a lot a pretty lean. This is a very lean, risky setup, I would say. Okay. but sometimes you have to risk it to get the biscuits, I would say. And I've done all sorts of you know,

data and research on two two tires, two four, you know, saving three pounds. I've done the measurements how much my seat post versus a dropper weighs, versus a rigid. I mean, there's a lot of different setups that you can choose for this race, so it's kinda fun to see what everyone's doing.

Hottie (03:36)
Right, so take us through how did you arrive at this pro caliber hardtail? What other measurements were you taking, what other ideas did you have? How did you arrive?

Paige Onweller (03:45)
Yeah, so first thing that you can kind of think about is your dropper. So you know, the dropper adds about one pound, so just running a rigid post. The trek RSL seat posts are super light, so that saves me one pound going to the rigid RSL seat post. And then yeah, I decided on a pro cal because I think there's a lot more road, and especially in the second half of the race where you really want to put the power down. I think a leaner bike is is gonna be faster.

I put a little bit bigger of a shock on the 110 on the front mostly because again it's a hardtail and if I was running my supercal I would go to the 110 that's or the 100. So I've chopped my bars down to 680 as you can see, so pretty lean setup here. I am not running flight attendant, I'm going old school, I got the twist. so you know I'm I'm kind of embracing the the older technology but it is lighter and it's you know works just as well.

And yeah, drivetrain, that's always a hot topic for this one too, because you know, you really need a lot of gears here. So I've opted for a thirty-six chainring up front and a ten fifty-two. You'll see guys running forty chain rings, but it's really, really hard to clear the top of Columbine with that big of a chain ring. Any amount of torque that it puts in your legs. in talking with my coach we decided the thirty six is probably the the better option.

Hottie (05:03)
It's thirty six bigger than you've run in the past.

Paige Onweller (05:06)
No, I've run thirty six here before. I've actually run a thirty-eight here. But then I had to walk both power line and the top of Columbine. So I think thirty six is kind of a perfect middle ground. I'd be surprised if women are running thirty eights. but if they do that yeah, it's a lot of torque they're gonna have in their legs for those some of those deep stuff.

Hottie (05:25)
Okay, lesson learned. Now we spent a lot of time speaking with you in the previous show about how you approach picking tires. You're a you have a a great sponsor by tires direct and that you can pick whatever you want. So how did we arrive at what you have here?

Paige Onweller (05:40)
Yeah, so I've kind of been debating with tires for a while. I I made a nice chart as I always do. but we didn't know until literally a week ago what the course was going to be. Even when I was pre-riding last week, there was a really chunky section and I was like, yeah, I'm definitely not doing a hardtail. So it wasn't until a week ago where we could really see, okay, there's actually quite a bit of road. And now that there's rain, the course is actually really tacky. It's not loose and I actually think a a two two tire is is favored here.

And we'll see a lot of people running 2-2. So I was kind of debating between the OG Race King Black Chili 22 versus the Thunderbird 2-3. those were kind of the the options. There was also a 2-2 prototype that I've been using, but yeah, and landed on the Black Chili 2-2 Conti Race Kings that I've actually had this set stored for like two years. It's my last set, so I'm really going all in and using them for this one.

but they roll fast, they have good traction, the flat protection's really good. I do think there's more risk of flats this year 'cause everyone's gonna be running really light tires. but I think this is gonna help me excel on the road sections and a lot of the smooth parts.

Hottie (06:50)
Okay. Any other bits that that are particular to Leadville?

Paige Onweller (06:55)
You know, I don't have this on my bike now, but you know, we always put bar tape in the middle here. just because aerodynamics, I mean, as you know, marginal gains, like aerodynamics are everything. And so I think that is if you can get your body position lower, especially when you're by yourself, that's huge. So a lot you know, we put a lot of effort into making it comfortable to kinda rest your arms on the bars. And again, chopping chopping the bars to six eighty.

Some people even go leaner or, you know, narrower than that just to be as aerodynamic as possible. but other than that, yeah, I think everything else is pretty pretty standard.

Hottie (07:31)
Yeah, low and narrow. are you going to we saw Kate Courtney pull this, grab the fork crown as she was going are you are you that

Paige Onweller (07:39)
Yeah, so actually it's funny that she was doing that because I actually had heard and I was under the understanding that when you do that you have a more of a chest fairing and it's actually less aerodynamic. You are lower, but I think the way it has your arms, it's actually slower. So I don't know. I haven't tested it personally, but I've definitely talked to a few riders that have seen the data and my understanding is that it's not maybe not as fast as we think.

Hottie (08:09)
And the clothing and aerobund were that's that's staying, correct?

Paige Onweller (08:13)
Yes, Arrowbond, of course, the hair wax that now I'm kind of known for. I always pack that for race day. arrow helmets, skin suits and you know, this one's hard 'cause it th that's the another unique thing about Ludville's the temperature swings because we start so early and dressing is like really challenging. So yeah, I'll do shoe covers for this one. so I'll get some double layering on the lower half of the leg with th the sock and the shoe cover.

And yeah, ultimately just trying to stay warm that first descent as well.

Hottie (08:44)
Are you finding that what you learned in the wind tunnel with Josh is carrying over to an event like this when you have flap bars, a slightly different position, obviously a different type of turn?

Paige Onweller (08:54)
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean I think once you spend time in a wind tunnel and and I'm sure like I mean Josh can just look at wind and see wind and see that, but I think that experience, like feeling the wind tunnel blowing at you, kind of makes me more aware and and there are things like it takes a lot of effort to get aerodynamic, to get lower, especially when you're six hours in t to a rough race and your body is screaming at you. So if you have that knowledge of like, Okay, I know this is gonna save me fifteen or twenty watts, like

put the effort in to get lower, even if your power is down five, ten watts, like you're saving twenty watts. So I think that's always an important thing for this race. And the other factor with such high altitude that I'm thinking about is if there's a section, instead of pedaling hard, if I can rest and get aerodynamic and coast that allows my body to to recover a bit more before these high altitude efforts. And managing your effort at these altitudes is so important. So having the aerodynamic

knowledge is helpful and just knowing what I've seen on my gravel bike can translate over okay, get really low, tuck in, you know, bring the elbows in, that sort of thing and then you can kinda recover a bit and lay down the power when it matters, which is I'm Columbine.

Hottie (10:04)
Yep. Well, Paige, we love the preparation. We love the person. Good luck there at Leadville and thanks for sharing your bike setup with us.

Paige Onweller (10:11)
Yeah, appreciate it.

Hottie (00:20)
Okay, Sam, right? First name? Yep, that's right. Okay. I'll call you Sam from here on out. Yep, that's perfect. Sam, I got an interesting way to start this interview off. So I was coming up the seventy yesterday. It was about three in the afternoon. And a car goes by me and there's a Cannondale on the outboard side of the bike rack and inboard there's a Ventum. And I said to my wife, that's the thirty twoer as you know, that's no secret the Ventum is a thirty twoer.

Sam Gross (00:48)
Actually think I I imagine I know who that vehicle was even.

Hottie (00:51)
So, I actually chased the vehicle down to to confirm that it was indeed one your bikes. So I think that's that kinda goes to show like w the level of enthusiasm and interest that's going right now on that wheel size. Is that what you folks are sensing?

Sam Gross (01:06)
Yeah, I mean, we definitely believe that thirty two inch wheels are gonna be the future and cross country mountain biking and maybe even more. from our testing that we've had on this bike, we've had these bikes underneath riders and then some of our staff for a little bit over a month now. They are incredibly fast. we we're we're very excited about them and the reception's been good so far too.

Hottie (01:30)
Yeah. So Ventum is well known for its road entries and a gravel bike so far. So the drop bar stuff and and for tri athletes and time trialists. That that's been your bread and butter to date as a company. Now how long's the company been around? Eleven

Sam Gross (01:44)
Seven years.

Hottie (01:45)
years, okay. So not a newcomer by any means. This is your first mountain bike as I understand. Correct. Why jump straight into thirty tour?

Sam Gross (01:54)
So we I mean when we kicked this project off, it was several years ago. We we've been wanting to do a mountain bike for a long time. It's it's made a lot of sense for us. We've seen a lot of success in the Grand Prix and our gravel vertical, and mountain is just a a really obvious next step there. And when we started this, we thought we were gonna do a twenty niner. you know, we that was several years ago. Thirty twos were kind of just like a whisper on the horizon. And as we move forward in the project, that whisper became louder and louder and louder.

About a year and a half ago, we reached a nexus point where we could make a decision: were we gonna go thirty-two or twenty-nine? And we decided to go all in on thirty-two.

Hottie (02:31)
And then it's also full suspension, which I think catches the eye, and most people figure you do a hardtail swing. So why f why full suspension for this platform?

Sam Gross (02:40)
So we try to not waste our time making bikes that we don't genuinely believe in. Like if you pay attention to all of Ventum's bikes that we offer in every different vertical, we make one gravel bike, one road bike. We really you know, we have two time trial bikes, but one's triathlon specific, one's UCI legal. We wanted to make one mountain bike that we truly believed was the right bike for the job. So we jumped straight into full suspension. Like

Hundred and twenty mil front and rear cross country bikes seem to be the industry standard right now. They are the industry standard. And that's what we wanted to do. Okay.

Hottie (03:14)
So tell us a little bit more about this bike. What what are some of its give me a thumbnail, a profile of of what it is we're looking at.

Sam Gross (03:21)
I gotta play my cards a little bit close to my chest because this is a pre production. You're gonna see it go live to the available to the public in early spring twenty twenty seven and as we get closer to that date we'll be releasing more and more information. But basically this bike is designed for cross country and cross country marathon racing. How we develop our bikes is we try and pick a like a like a smattering of races that if

We were gonna have the perfect bike for what would it look like? And for us, we chose races like Leadville, Moab Rocks, BC Bike Race, Cape Epic. Think the big, long, prestigious mountain bike races that are very popular right now. So that's really kind of the design ethos that we put into this. It's a very well-descending bike. It corners very intuitively. The rolling is incredibly quick. It climbs very, very quickly. It's light. All of those different things that you want in a race bike, we've built into this.

Hottie (04:15)
Tell us about your suspension choices then. Full suspension and where did you t decide to land on as far as travel goes.

Sam Gross (04:22)
So we are likely gonna be looking at 120 mils of travel front and rear. the only caveat there is on the smaller sizes. You may see 100 mils of travel on some of the smaller sizes. That has to do with standover height. 32 inch wheels plus suspension height. That just literally makes your standover high. so we're waiting on some feedback from some of our test riders on if we need to go lower, if that is an option we need to consider.

But early feedback has been that the hundred and twenty mil seems to be working very well. That's one of those things in this prototype development process where we're still at and still making decisions.

Hottie (04:58)
And a lot of the you know, the early takes on the thirty two or platform is it's for tall people only. And to try and squeeze or get a smaller or shorter rider over one of these bikes is going to be very difficult. So what what's been your take on

Sam Gross (05:13)
Did you happen to catch that car that had the the Cannondale and the Ventum on the back of it? Yes, I did. Did you talk to the person driving it? No, that

Hottie (05:20)
They were going too fast for me.

Sam Gross (05:22)
Was I my guess was that it may have been one of our athletes who's quite short, one of our female pros. early feedback from some of our smaller riders has been that it's incredibly good. obviously for larger people, I mean this is kind of the same conversation that happened when twenty-nine came out. And like

People genuinely believe like, it's a bigger wheelbase, it's a bigger wheel, like it's gonna work better for taller riders. Early feedback from our testers has been no that it's gonna work across the board.

Hottie (05:53)
So, is this the debut here? Is Leadville the

Sam Gross (05:56)
Yeah, we're not launching it here. We're just kind of like showing off of our prototype. Like I don't have a mountain bike that I need to worry about, you know, people still buying for the next six months. Like we're happy to show this thing off and we want to show our work too. We want people to know that we're trying to do this right. We're we're doing the correct process to put this tomorrow.

Hottie (06:14)
And I guess what I'm also asking is is this the bike's first race? Yeah.

Sam Gross (06:18)
Yeah. Okay. First time. Okay.

Hottie (06:20)
And I I guess we've kinda glo we haven't glossed over this at all. We just haven't mentioned it. Does it have a name?

Sam Gross (06:25)
It does. that's one of the things we're gonna hold close to our chest. Right we're just calling it the the pro prototype thirty two or the thirty two project. so yeah, no no name right now. Okay. That's what I can say.

Hottie (06:36)
How many riders should we be counting coming across the the finish line at Leadville on a on a Ventum thirty seven? I'd expect about eight.

Sam Gross (06:42)
Eight.

Eight. Majority in the pro fields. and then we'll have a handful of amateurs as well. we have twenty test bikes in the country right now. so there may be a couple of more

Hottie (06:54)
Have you ha how much time have you had to spend, you're a marketing guy, countering some of the negativity that that's bound to come up with this?

Sam Gross (07:03)
Not a lot. I mean, you know, the first time we actually showed the bike to the public was on Monday. we did an Instagram post and it got a lot of traction and that triggered a ton of media coverage. And there's the the normal things that you'd expect, like kind of the armchair pink bike comments of, you know, it's only good for big people or it's you know, it's gonna be slow out of corners and stuff like that. And I I think I understand why people would try and make those logical leaps.

But we haven't had to do very much. Like I've been riding the I was actually the first person to be on a test bike and I've put about six hundred miles on it in the Park City area and I've had a lot of conversations with people on the trail and in the parking lot and it's been pretty positive. People seem pretty excited for it. I think especially seeing it on a bike like this that doesn't look weird. it looks like a mountain bike. It does, yeah.

Hottie (07:54)
Except when it's sitting behind a cannon deal. Yeah. And then you go, No, those wheels are way too big.

Sam Gross (08:00)
That mic looks like it'd eat the other. Yeah.

Hottie (08:02)
Have you been able to you know, one of the one of the issues at least you know, I spoke to an engineer, Daniel Yang, who built one of these as well, and he said, Look, one of the issues you gotta be careful of when building a with a wheel size this big is when you stick your rear over the back of the saddle, that back tire can come up and catch you. Get a little buzz. Is that just something we're gonna have to

Get used to riding this size of wheel or is there a way to engineer your way around?

Sam Gross (08:27)
I've done it once. so you know, the the rear wheel is definitely like it's just physically larger and physically closer to where your butt might be if you're hanging it off the back on something something steep. something that will likely be interesting is I think instead of having maximum insertion depths for seat posts, you're gonna see maximum lengths. So especially on smaller sizes, you might see like saddle contact problems between the rear tire and a dropped saddle.

so we've found that like, you know, a hundred mil travel on a small bike is probably plenty. but yeah, I've you know, I've I've done it once, I've ridden plenty of steep stuff. It's you know, wakes you up.

Hottie (09:06)
Okay, all right. I am not too wise as as far as linkage and suspension. So can can you tell me what's going on here with the rear linkage and and the type of suspension you have here?

Sam Gross (09:19)
We are the what I can say is that it's a flex day. other than that, we're gonna have to wait. Okay.

Hottie (09:27)
All right. And I it could be DW link for all I know, but I don't know.

Sam Gross (09:32)
So No, this is not DW.

Hottie (09:34)
Right. Okay.

Sam Gross (09:35)
It would probably have DW link printed on it. That's usually how that one goes.

Hottie (09:38)
Yeah, okay. Okay, again, spring of next year we should look for this thing. Very

Sam Gross (09:42)
Yep, early spring.

Hottie (09:44)
good. Well I wish you luck with it. We'll see it in action and we'll start counting bikes as they come across.

Sam Gross (09:50)
Yeah, thanks a ton. Okay, thank you.

Hottie (00:41)
Okay. Very good. What was your what were your thoughts going into today and and then did your thoughts play out? Were your predictions true about how the day would run?

Zach Calton (00:51)
N I would say no, yeah. With with Quinn here, I kind of expected a really fast group to com to the bottom of Columbine. So when we finished up with Saint Kevins, and the group was pretty large and also wasn't really working well. So we knew the group you know, the groups behind were gonna catch us. that was really surprising to me. So that was really interesting and it made us come into the bottom of Columbine with a with like

most of the pro field I'd say. which was super interesting, but it played into my hand well 'cause I think I'm better at the you know, kinda kinda waiting for Columbine rather than being in a you know, group of two and having to work, you know, a lot of the wind on the way over.

Hottie (01:36)
How about your energy expenditure? Like it w had to feel a little different based on your past here, right? Did you did you gauge things appropriately?

Zach Calton (01:44)
Yeah, I mean St. Kevin's has always been really, really hard. but the the the removal of sugar loaf and then power line on the way back definitely made it so you could race a lot harder. You definitely had to, you know, keep a couple dollars in your back pocket in on the old course. And I was tentative to spend those this year, but I'm glad I did because it, you know, allowed us to stay away after after Columbine. But yeah, I mean the racing was much more aggressive than most years, especially the last couple hours.

Hottie (02:13)
Well, you had a great day on the bike and of course your bike has been drawing a lot of attention. So give us a quick Leadville review on the Ventum thirty two. Now we b by the way, we've talked to Sam Gross prior to the race. So I really want to hear a a quick review on how the bike performed for you.

Zach Calton (02:28)
It performed really well. Yeah, I mean I really genuinely felt like I just had more grip than anyone else out there. like the Columbine descent, protecting my rims and you know, running at high enough pressure to protect my rims and avoid pinch flats has meant I've maybe not had the best grip. And so the Columbine descent has always been pretty full gas for me just to, you know, sort of hold my position. Whereas this time I think I rode from like sixteenth kinda to the thirteenth group just on the descent.

and I felt super comfortable doing so, which you know, huge peace of mind lets you relax and then you know, if you make a better group on that on that short descent sets you up for a better finish, you know, a few hours later.

Hottie (03:09)
Momentum was there, or did you feel like, boy, I'm carrying more speed than I'm used to rounding?

Zach Calton (03:13)
Yeah, for sure. Like on the like kind of the like coming backwards off Saint Kevin's there's a pretty notorious sort of rocky rooted climb that just sorta never ends. And I really felt like I had an advantage there 'cause Payson was putting me on a lot of pressure on sort of the paved stuff, but anytime it got chunky I felt like I could hang really well.

Hottie (03:30)
How about when you get in a group, you know, the front wheel there is quite big. Did you have to be conscious of watching for overlap or managing that big wheel as you got closer to other tires rolling around?

Zach Calton (03:41)
You know, I felt like kind of to my previous point, with more grip, I felt like I could be a little more risky with my group behavior, you know, be be a little closer, get a little better draft. Because it really felt like every corner we took I could take it a little tighter than the person in front of me. So I didn't have to worry about them blowing the corner and taking me out 'cause I could just go inside of them.

Hottie (04:00)
How about the climbs? Did it feel as sprize or used to on a twenty nine or twenty nine or

Zach Calton (04:04)
With the twenty there?

I mean the smooth climbs it feels, you know, it's it's it's marginal er or if not similar. But when it gets chunky, like, you know, kind of the I can forget the name of it, but the last little climb into town there. the boulevard, yes. Yeah, like that one I felt like I saved a lot of energy on. Stuff like that.

Hottie (04:22)
Did you have to make any gearing changes? Do you feel like you aired towards a little lower gear or a l smaller ring to make sure you got up Columbine, Kevins, what have you?

Zach Calton (04:32)
Yeah, so I've run a thirty eight here every year in the past and so I I switched down to a thirty four, which if you, you know, do the conversion is like the equivalent of a thirty seven and a half, which I would you know, I was I was happy with that half tooth virtual of a you know, easier gear than my thirty eight 'cause that last bit of Columbine is so steep that it's n very necessary for sure.

Hottie (04:54)
Sorry about the dog fight in the background, folks. You know, I think that means Alexei's in the house probably with Willie.

Zach Calton (05:02)
Being challenged for his throne.

Hottie (05:04)
So do you see yourself riding this machine in all your X E mountain bike races?

Zach Calton (05:11)
I do, yeah. So I've got Po Park City Point to Point coming up in is it like two or three weeks and that one is in my opinion the best cross country mountain bike course in the world. So and that's seventy five miles of single track and proper mountain biking, that'll be what I run there. And I'm really curious to see how it compares, but I feel really confident after today that it'll be quite good.

Hottie (05:32)
Well I'm sorry to pepper you with all the tech questions. I know you were out there using your legs. It's not all about the bike, but

Zach Calton (05:38)
A little bit about the bike for sure.

Of course, thank you. All right, bye bye.

Hottie (00:31)
Emma's a first time lead driller. And you were expecting what and then how did it turn out?

Emma Langley (00:36)
Yeah, I r I really didn't know what to expect. So my very first time in Leadville was for the stage race a few weeks ago. and that course was totally different. There were still a lot of closures with the fire, so the first and third stage was completely different than what we did today. So I had no idea what to expect with my first time coming into the one hundred, never doing the course. everyone was saying it was gonna be fast. I could tell that from recon, but yeah, you still never know. I I knew it was probably gonna blow up and indeed it did. So a lot of a lot of

Time on my own.

Hottie (01:07)
So

it lived up to what you were kinda thinking, what happened? Absolutely. And how did things go for you personally?

Emma Langley (01:13)
Yeah, so for me, I was in a a pretty big group. I think we were like third, maybe even fourth group on the road, after Kevin's coming down into pipeline. and we were rolling pretty well together, but then that splintered too even before Columbine. And then yeah, from there it was just ride my own pace. So all the way up the climb, all the way down. was kind of yo yoing with a few different riders throughout the day, which is more fun than at least being totally solo, but

Yeah, I wasn't able to really hang on any wheels or same if I happened to catch someone we we weren't quite going the same pace to work together, so it just meant a lot of solo time.

Hottie (01:49)
Did it have a road racy feel?

Emma Langley (01:54)
as a road racer I'll say no, although it for sure had elements. the part that was still just very off road is how much it blew up so quickly. and I I think just by the end of the race almost no one was with a group or maybe just little ones and twosy groups for so much of the day.

Hottie (02:11)
So the road kind of allowed people to hang in, but the dirt was a the deciding factor in the end?

Emma Langley (02:16)
Yeah, I think that's exactly it. Yep.

Hottie (02:18)
Okay. you wrote a very attractive and interesting new rig, which is the other reason we want to talk to Emma. Again, she's part of the team the Ventum team. They've showing off a brand new thirty-two here at Leadville, kinda making its race debut. You were on that rig, tell us, you know, first impressions, like how did it do out here at at a race that seems tailor made for us.

Emma Langley (02:39)
Yeah. Yeah, so I guess I'll preface for the listeners who don't know me or can't see me. I'm five three. I I'm pretty short. So before getting the bike, that was definitely an apprehension was am I gonna fit? but sure enough, I got the bike, got the measurements, and my fit is the same as on my twenty-nine in terms of my reach and stack and all that good stuff. so pedaling I feel great. And then man, those big wheels, they just roll over everything. I felt so good on anything technical. And

Also, as I mentioned, I come from a road background, so that's massive for me in a mountain bike race to have that confidence.

Hottie (03:11)
I'm pretty sure actually I was behind you, not in the race, but coming up the I seventy, I saw I saw a ventum on the back of a Subaru I

Emma Langley (03:20)
Yeah.

Hottie (03:21)
it was here. Okay. The r the rumors confirmed, folks. That was Emma Lang to go up to seventy. and I was very excited to see it. Like okay, it's gonna it's gonna be in action and we're gonna put really put it through the test. What did you have to make first of all, did you set the bike up with anything in mind specifically for Leadville, but made it kind of a Leadville bike.

Emma Langley (03:41)
Yeah, the the main thing was just no dropper post. but everything else is is pretty standard. my wheel sponsor and tire sponsor, DT Swiss and Kenda, have thirty twos, which was also awesome, so I could have their materials for the race. but yeah, so no no changes in that regard.

Hottie (03:58)
any gearing changes? Were you a smaller ring due to the bigger wheel size? Did you have to make adjustments like that?

Emma Langley (04:04)
Yes, I did have to put a smaller chain ring on compared to my twenty nine inch bike. But I'll probably keep that for most of the races. I mean, we'll we'll see.

Hottie (04:14)
So you're down to thirty-four? Am I I'm guessing,

Emma Langley (04:16)
I think I was on a thirty two.

Hottie (04:18)
okay. But still you got plenty of rollover, so who cares?

Emma Langley (04:21)
Yes. Yes.

Hottie (04:24)
you know, yeah, you you brought up your height that that's been the ongoing kind of discussion with this wheel size is people under five foot nine will never fit on a bike like that. And you're tell you're here to tell them, yes they can. Okay.

Emma Langley (04:37)
That's right. That's right. Yep.

Hottie (04:40)
Are you gonna continue do you have other races planned on that machine?

Emma Langley (04:44)
yes, we'll have the next mountain bike lifetime grand pre race is Schwammigan. Okay. I'll for sure race it there and then little sugar. Okay, awesome.

Hottie (04:51)
Yep. the other issue that comes up with a bike like that is that the rear tire can come up and hit ya. Does it hit you? All right. Well good. All all the boxes are checked from that standpoint.

Emma Langley (05:04)
Yeah.

Hottie (05:05)
Excellent. Well, give yourself a overall gray, like what are you gonna walk away with from this race? What's gonna I know it's hard to like sum up feelings and memories when you're fresh off the finish line, but what do you think your takeaways will be from the Leadville One Hundred?

Emma Langley (05:20)
Yeah, I feel put on the spot because generally I have like a roller coaster of emotions. but I'll be honest, I was pretty terrified of this race coming into it. I know it's, you know, people will say it's it's not that technical or you know, this year's course was faster, but I was still pretty darn scared. I coming from sea level, coming from a road background, there were a lot of th coming, you know, into a really, really stacked field. So there was a lot that I was nervous about.

so I'm gonna say overall I'm happy, which is not normal for me to say right after the finish. So I think that's a good sign.

Hottie (05:51)
All right. Well maybe the thirty two wheels help.

Emma Langley (05:54)
one hundred percent. Yeah, no doubt.

Hottie (05:57)
All Emma, thanks for the time, appreciate it. We'll see you at the next

Emma Langley (05:59)
Thank you, Michael. Thanks so much.

Hottie (06:01)
Awesome. Thank

Well, Sam was right. You should talk to her. I like, Okay, I will.

Hottie (01:35)
Let's knock something out real quick here. All right, we're here with John Gaston. we've had John on our Leadville show, but we wanted to do introduce John to the marginal gains audience because

John, as long as I've known you, you I don't think there's anybody that can describe the front of the race better than you can. You've seen it a lot, you seem to have an eye for what's going on. So from your vantage point, you finished fourth today. What what happened out there? Did it did it did the race play out like you thought it would? And if not, how did things differ?

John Gaston (02:08)
yeah, it it it honestly played out somewhat similarly to how I feared it would. Keegan and I were chatting a little bit over the weekend, I I knew the plan. I mean without without sugar loaf or power line in either direction, there were very limited opportunities to make a real difference on the vertical terrain. So he was gonna send it full gas, even faster than last year up Kevin's and

You know, the goal was to get a group whittled down to, you know, two to five, and and work well out out to Columbine. But as sorta feared, you know, when you don't have sugar loaf kinda looming in the distance, people were we're willing to risk everything to stay to stay in touch and sure enough, you know, we did get a little bit of gap, but not a big enough one and

That group swelled back to geeze, I don't even know. You would know better than me, t twenty maybe, or something like that or more. I don't know. by by the bottom of c of Twin Lakes. Yeah, the the time

Hottie (03:13)
That sounded like a lot, but

John Gaston (03:18)
you know, because yeah, you know, so it was like it was like a double thing, like which was again the issue was like when you get a group, I think I think the first group was only maybe like 15, but no one's gonna do any work when a group's that size. So the next group caught us in your right. So we ended up yeah having like massive group on the actual approach to Twin Lakes. but you know, just had to make sure I was positioned near the front, heading through those little kickers from the dam out to the base of the climb.

and then once you get there, you know, that was the whole course. Like we all knew it. Everyone was fresher this year, so we knew it was all gonna come down to to Columbine, which is pretty daunting 'cause like normally, at least in the back of your mind, you have power line on the return trip or the Turkhorse Lake Climb and this year you didn't have any of that, so you really had to go all out on on Columbine and and we did. I mean that was by far the fastest I've ever gone on Columbine. It was

Absolutely insane. I don't know how any of us got up there. you know, we kept Keegan sort of within touching distance. I think he probably realized he wasn't gonna get a big enough of a gap and sort of not soft pedaled, but like he I think he knew it was gonna come back together at the bottom there, but he wanted to make us really work for it and sort of burn some mashes. but yeah, it all regrouped at the at the the bottom there at the second Lost Canyon feed.

And so we had a good group of seven rolling back to the final climb. But you know, we all worked pretty well together, but it is what it is. Like the course had nothing hard or technical in it, so there was nowhere to for anyone to really make a move. And it all came down to that last that last paved climb, you know, like on the backside of Turquoise Lake. I even know that's called, honestly. I'd never actually ridden that in my whole life. and it's it's a beautiful road, but it's it's not it's not even as steep as the normal Turquoise Lake climb from the other side.

And we were kind of rotating pretty well, but no one really doing too much. And then near the top where it kind of had a bit more sustained gradient, Keegan finally did his thing, and I just I went all in. Because I I don't have a sprint on me. I know that I don't pretend otherwise and I was just gonna do everything humanly possible to stay with him across keevens. And I thought maybe that would be enough and I was I was trying to persuade him like

You know, if you don't drop me, then I can help tow you back to the bottom of the boulevard and we'd, you know, win-win for both of us. But I was able to we actually worked really well together. I mean that that's kind of the crazy part. Like we got a gap. I stuck with him. He threw in some monster efforts on those last couple little kickers. Those like just brutal, like 30 second to one minute efforts, and I was able to hang, which it's the first time in my life I was able to do that. and then we kind of took turns sort of on the traverse bit, and then I led that final descent and took

quite a few risks. Thought we had enough of the gap. He thought we did too. And then on that last that last big switchback at the kind of towards the bottom of the Kievan's descent, I around the switchback first, leading the race, which is cool. kicking on my wheel and we hear like a buzz. And I look up the switchback and it was I don't know if it was Matt or Braden, but I was like, my God. And and that was one of the main you know learn not that it was a learning but like one of the cool features of the group today I will say.

Proper mountain bikers. everyone except for Simone was a ripping descender. And Simone has more than earned his stripes as well on on the descents. But when you got when you look at guys like Andreas Sievald, former world champ, Brayden Lang, probably the best descender in the entire field. Matt Wilson, also maybe the best descender in the field. They're definitely the two. Cole, I mean like it was it was just hitters. And so I was like, man, I'm not dropping any of these guys on any descent. In fact, neither is

Keegan, like these guys could drop us. so I don't know. We worked with the cards we had, but I think at the end of the day, yeah, they were hats off to them. They they closed, you know, we didn't have a big gap across Kevans, but we had a little bit of one, and they I I think both Keegan and I probably both descended Kevans faster than we ever had. And they still caught us, which says something. So chapeau. And honestly, once it swelled the group before, I knew I knew I was fourth. I mean I I don't have yeah, I don't have a sprint.

I did what I could on the boulevard section. all four of us actually made it up that first steep rocky pitch together. I mean it was everyone was really maxed out. It was a very different dynamic because there weren't these big long climbs to just let fatigue build and ride at threshold or sweet spot or something, which is my normal MO. Like it was just VO2 hits basically like all day long, other than other than Columbine.

And that's a different kind of wear and tear, I guess. And I mean, you know, like on the one hand I'm bummed to finish fourth, but at the same time, not really, 'cause you know, like I could finish second or third and be fifteen minutes back on Keegan again, you know, and ride most of the race alone. But this was certainly a far more dynamic and I wouldn't even call it tac I mean it was tactical, but it also became just an absolute slug fest at the end. So

You know, the strongest guy is still one at the end of day. I I wish there'd been a you know, more vert, 'cause that is sort of my only card, is to wear guys down just with long climbs. it's funny, I think I probably could have made the I got I got the fake podium in fourth. I probably could have made the real podium and second or third if we had the real course back in, but at the same time my gap would have been, you know, ten to fifteen minutes on Keegan. So, you know, glass half old I guess. but it was a fun day ish.

I mean, I don't know. It was it was a day, like it was it was pretty wild. I mean You know, we all thought it was gonna be the Quinn and Keegan show. And that's what it was looking like for the first twenty minutes maybe of Columbine. but they were within sight. I mean we were never that far on like er years past, you know, you say bye to Keegan. I literally last year I literally said see at the finish. And this year, the gaps never got all that big, which

gave you just enough hope. and then shockingly I think to everyone, Quinn dropped and then dropped hard. I mean that's re relative, but like I think he still probably finished quite strong. But like when you blow on Columbine, it's not pretty when you have half the climb left, you know. You've been up there, man. and that really opened things up I think a lot because Keegan didn't have Quinn to work with on the way home, which I think is what everyone expected. Okay.

And that changed the game.

Hottie (10:09)
had you and then that's a great I mean I think what you're s the lesson here is

John Gaston (10:13)
Mm-hmm.

Hottie (10:13)
Yeah. I think one of the lessons here you're telling us is that look, identify the marked rider and instead of riding against him for a hundred miles, ride with him and then see how it can shake out.

John Gaston (10:26)
Yeah, I don't think it no one was really riding against anyone else. Everyone just sort of knew the facts of the course. I mean, you you had Columbine to make the difference, and we knew we knew that Columbine would whittle the group down. Like you're not gonna we went so hard with Columbine, like whoever was left was gonna be very strong. Like that wasn't that was always gonna be the case, but but literally we also knew that like there was gonna be effectively two hours of neutral from the top of Columbine until

the steeper part of that Turquest Lake climb. Like it or it was so it was it was a weird idea. It was it was way more full gas because then you had so much more recovery, so to speak. so it was a very different type of effort, to be honest. Very different type of effort than normal Leadvilles.

Hottie (11:15)
Well, I know you put a lot of thought and preparation into this race and I've been looking at your bike here. I don't see a lot different from what you ride in years past. I now others have done some things. No drop bars this year, but I saw a lot more narrow bars. I see you have road pedals. Yeah. Did you

John Gaston (11:35)
There are two.

Hottie (11:36)
are there a few things here I just can't see?

John Gaston (11:38)
It's it's an Epic 9, like Mr. Swenson. mine does not have World Champ stripes, as you can tell, but it does have the weight weenie matte black finish, which saves about 60 grams versus the painted one. short forked, obviously, because this is Leadville, so reduce the travel, lengthen the reach, decrease stack to get as long and low as possible. This bike actually has about a 20.

five millimeter longer reach anyways over the Epic World Cup that I ran last year. So it's extremely long and then I paired it with a ridiculous 110 stem. So this is basically a longer fit than even my road bike is. It's by far the longest bike I've ever ridden at this race. And you did that to

Hottie (12:23)
Yeah.

John Gaston (12:23)
I did it because I I knew it was gonna be even more important to be even more arrow. you know I did experiment with some some stuff. I mean this is pretty basic. Flat bars

got pretty skinny at 660, a little bit of bar tape, blips under the brake levers like most of us. But I decided not to use the new fancy five dev. I don't know if you're familiar with those, but the Shredville mounts. I got a pair of those and within 20 minutes decided they were the excuse my French dumbest thing anyone's ever made. And I could not live with myself if I rode those.

A, they look ridiculous and I judge myself riding those. B, they're actually way more dangerous than I realized. I think a drop armbug is actually significantly safer than the Shredville mounts for a couple of reasons we can or can't get into, but the main one is that yes it has a really cool arrow hoods position, but if you ever want to wrap two fingers under the brake lever if the road gets really rough and you want a bit of extra security to not go over the end.

You can't brake at all. So you have to really think through. If you want to brake, you gotta get you gotta either commit to staying on the hoods with nothing in front of your hands, you can slide forward, or you gotta commit to getting back to the bars. You can't wrap fingers like on a road bike for some extra security. So yeah, that was a hard no for me. and honestly, you can get like this, this length is so long, it's basically just as arrow. 40-tooth chain ring,

For the speed. I've been running 38s the last couple years and I was a little nervous, you know, on the return trip of power line with a 40 tooth. But I made the call after last year that even regardless of the course change, if you wanna ride the speeds that Keegan rides normally. This year was actually a bit different, but the normal pace that Simone and Keegan and I rode out to Twin Lakes last year was so fast. I was spun out so much, so I I committed to the Forty Tooth.

Hottie (14:35)
Are these continentals or what do we got sporting there? I know you've been a race king guy in the

John Gaston (14:41)
Racing guy since way before Dylan had a YouTube channel. I think I raced my previous previous gig racing Leadville in my amateur days in twenty thirteen, fourteen, fifteen were Albin Lakata's years when he was going for the sub six hour and he was riding for Topek Aragon and they were a Conti team. So I've been riding Race Kings here since twenty fourteen, which I think is before some of these lifetime guys were born.

But I've switched back and forth. You know, my go-to training tire is a dub 2-4. I love that tire. I think it's incredible. It can rip single track, it can rip Leadville. I rode it in all week. I should have I mean I if it was the normal course, I actually think I may have ridden it with this change mm effectively neutering the course. I went back to the old school race kings. They are for sure sketchier, but they're lighter and they are so fast on pavement.

Would have made a difference? No. But the two fours are far more fun. but you know, this isn't about having fun. This is about going fast, and these are frickin' fast, so yeah, downsized. this is probably the last time I'll ever run them. and then yeah, I gotta

Hottie (15:58)
Birds now too, I guess you c it's hard to get to them anymore, so

John Gaston (16:02)
Yeah, I got a little stash.

Hottie (16:04)
Stashes, I've heard people are stashes, yeah.

John Gaston (16:06)
They are the best gravel tire ever made. They're not the mountain bike tire ever made, but they are the gravel tire ever made. And as much as I think, you know, on the traditional course, I kind of defend Latterville as being a mountain bike race because if you can't descend with those top guys who are all mountain bikers, you're not making it. I don't care if you have world two or fitness. And that heck, that showed today, even on a course that took out almost all of the technical ascending, and the entire top five were

really good mountain bikers. Like there was just no chance of hanging with that pace and those as short as the descents were, they were still crucial. and yeah, I think the coolest part of this bike actually is this way too fancy superfluous hop derailer. This is a full carbon upgrade kit on an XX SL derailer. probably cost my kids college tuition, but it looks super sick. Solid carbon pulley wheels, every single

bit of the body is replaced with forged carbon and titanium pins. but I also left some stuff off. Yeah, I had you know, some arrow fork fairings, some carbon fairings that I was playing with that looked pretty wild, but honestly I was glad to see that most people decided to just ride somewhat normal mountain bikes and you know I'm the flat bar forever guys so I have

like I kinda had to do my part and keep keep that alive. 'Cause at the end of the day, yeah, you can seek some of these marginal gains, but and and actually of any year to do that, this would have been the year, frankly, to go all out on things like fork fairings and whatnot. But this race, the legs end up doing the talking anyway you slice it. yeah, I don't think those positions for the top five would have changed either way.

Hottie (17:59)
Well we love your racing, John, and we thank you for your openness too about your tech and how you how it all played out for you today. don't stay in order to this race. Keep coming back. I hope you will. But I I hope you enjoy the rest of your summer too.

John Gaston (18:11)
Be back, but probably in a different, you know, a different form. I'll bring my kids back. We could spectate. When they get old enough, I told my ride with them, but you know, at the end of the day I told myself that I I didn't want to race into my 40s at a certain point. It's not fair to my family who support me, and you know, the the training to get to this level is sort of ridiculous. but once you get a taste of being at the pointy end.

You know, I don't really have a lot of interest in coming back for I mean I could train half as much and do six and a half hours or seven hours or something, which is very good. I'm not taking away away from that, but you know, I had a very specific six hour goal in my sort of second career on the bike and I wish it could have gone differently with the fire. It is what it is and you know, fortunately that's under control or getting under control for everyone affected by it.

This wasn't really the race I was going for, but at the same time I think I definitely made the most of it and to be leading across, you know, in the in the finale and play a a real part with Keegan across Keevens to the line was really cool in another way. So makes for a good story. And I'll be back, but maybe on the other side of the mic.

Hottie (19:29)
All right, John, thanks again for coming on the show.

John Gaston (19:31)
Thank you very much.

No me quiero llegar.

Hottie (19:36)
Okay.