FACTOR Bikes - Rob Gitelis
0 commentsEPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Hottie (00:01)
Okay, so what I'm gonna do first, Rob, is I'll just do a a countdown. You probably did this with Josh back in 2000, but I'm gonna do a countdown and we're gonna clap. That'll allow me to sync up all the audio later. so let's do that to start off. So just follow along with us as we count down here. Okay, this is the Rob Gitelis interview for Marginal Gains in Five, four, three, two, one.
Josh (00:23)
Four, three, two, one.
Rob (00:24)
Three, two, one.
Hottie (00:28)
Man, that was well done. Well done by all.
Okay, is this recording? This is being recorded. I'm recording there. Okay. Excellent. I'm recording there. Josh is being recorded by Riverside. Okay. All right. You want me to light the candle, Josh, or is this more your guest than mine?
Josh (00:49)
Yeah, you open us up.
Hottie (00:53)
Okay. All right, Rob, here we go. Should take like under an hour, usually, so we generally keep them pretty good.
All right, like we said, Marginal Gain listeners, our guest is Rob Gitelis of Factor Bikes. You know his bikes. I hope you know his bikes. I mean, some of the greatest-looking, fastest-looking bikes we have seen, and I presume they're fast on the road too, Rob, in the Super Aero Factor one and the Elara on the gravel side of things. Great looking bikes. Rob, you got quite a lineup going now. I counted fourteen bikes. Is that what you're up to now?
Rob (01:32)
That sounds about right. Sometimes I lose track of it.
Hottie (01:35)
Yeah, right. Well, you say if folks go to the website and start counting bikes. If we're wrong, please let us know. But it looked like fourteen bikes to me. Road, gravel, mountain, triathlon, and track. You get all the categories there covered. Rob was on the show, Josh, in January 2020. Do you remember that interview? It's been a little bit of a while. It was a different world back
Josh (01:55)
I
Hottie (01:56)
then.
Josh (01:57)
that was like one of our earliest shows. I mean you had to be in like the first I don't know, t ten, twelve episodes or something. So yeah, no, it's it feels like a lifetime ago.
Hottie (02:07)
Yeah. It's actually January of 2020, so right after that interview, we entered a wacky and totally different world, for everyone, for the bike industry, for people, for health, for all for all manner of reasons. So it's good we're we're catching up with Rob here. Rob told us the s his story back in that episode. So folks, you should go back and listen to the the twenty twenty episode. It was just Rob and Josh talking about how Rob ended up in Taiwan and in the carbon fiber business and their relationship.
vis-a-vis Zipp, so there's some good background there. you were jeez, like our last guest, Josh, Rob started racing at the age of twelve years old. So he jumped right into the crit scene of Miami and became were you a good racer, Rob?
Rob (02:56)
I wasn't bad. I, you know, I didn't make too much money from doing it, but I guess you could say I was a professional, so yeah, wasn't the worst out there.
Hottie (03:07)
Uhhuh. Yeah. And you stepped away from racing in nineteen ninety six, but you had a comeback in twenty eleven. In fact, turned pro in twenty eleven. And that kind of th
Rob (03:13)
I did. I did. I ended up
Huh. I was gonna say I ended up racing the UCI Asia Tour again, as a forty-year-old, which in hindsight sounds pretty funny now, but at the time it was a pretty good time.
Hottie (03:30)
Yeah, and as I understand that experience led to Factor, but and the reason you you started Factor because in your comeback, you thought and this is 2011 and I was racing in twenty eleven too, you thought the bikes just were not very good at the time. Now I remember racing in twenty eleven. I thought the bikes were good, but I had no other reference. Like, you know, I'm not a I'm not a bike builder, so I have no clue. I thought the bikes were good. I was having a good time. What did you see in twenty eleven that went, man, this is I gotta do something about this
Rob (03:59)
Well, I wouldn't say that the bikes weren't good. you know, I was busy at that time building bikes for many different brands, and I always thought that we could do something better. I always thought that we were leaving something on the table, usually driven by price. it was interesting to hear Silca launching tires a few weeks ago, and it was a very similar story in many ways. You know, I used to go to my customers and I would say, Hey, for forty dollars more, we could make a better bike, and they would always be like, Nope, we can't afford it.
And that became very frustrating for me as a manufacturer. I always wanted to make the very best bikes, and I was almost prevented from doing it by my own customers.
Josh (04:39)
Yeah, it's actually you're one of the first people I think that I ever had some of these conversations with. I mean, back into the early two thousands, right? Where you'd get into, man, we could do this and but it's nobody will pay for it, right? And I think, I mean, heck, I think a lot of your career and a lot of my career was just, you know, it boils down to being the guy willing to spend the extra whatever, three dollars, forty dollars, whatever the number is. But but yeah, so so you took that mindset into Fac.... When did you buy the factor brand?
Rob (05:11)
I bought it in I bought it in 2015-2016 and then we we officially launched 2017. So we're coming up on our ten year anniversary at Tour Down Under, January of next year. So it's hasn't been that long, although it feels like kind of a long time already.
Josh (05:29)
It feels like life when you're running it, it feels like a lifetime. I know that feeling. So you have big are are you guys doing anything crazy for your tenth anniversary? Like, you just did SpongeBob, so what can we expect?
Rob (05:42)
Well yeah, I mean we're always working on some interesting collabs. I think that we'll probably do something special at the Tour Down Under. we'll have a couple of teams there. So I think it lends itself, you know, to being a nice ten-year anniversary, being that we launched there, and then, you know, coming back ten years later with some very different bikes than that ten-year-ago bike.
Hottie (06:07)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Josh (06:08)
gosh, yeah. Yeah, well, you guys have been on a tear. I mean, I just who is it? One of the cycling news or bike ri one of those just did a big wheel shootout that you guys basically trounced everybody. I think the last independent wind tunnel test I saw, you guys trounced everybody. I mean, you guys are on fire at the moment. So I mean one, congrats, but two, walk us into you know, you're not quite ten years in and you're I mean you're pretty much lighting the rest of the industry on fire.
Rob (06:40)
Well, I'm pretty happy to see some of the some of the news outlets starting to do their own testing so that they're not just leaving it up to the press releases provided by the brands about, you know, fifteen watts faster and thirty percent stiffer and ten percent lighter. you know. And so it's good to see some of the media outlets starting to do these tests, but it's kind of a double-edged sword because some of the testing that's going on we don't always agree with.
But you know, we're pretty happy that, you know, I think for the most part we've won almost all of the aero tests done, at least by the one you mentioned, Cycling News. Of course, when you get into some of the other publications like Tour magazine, it's a little bit of a black hole because they don't actually publish anything about how they test. And then
Josh (07:27)
Yeah. Yeah.
Hottie (07:27)
Mm.
Rob (07:28)
surprisingly, it's always a German brand that wins. But nothing towards...
Josh (07:31)
Right.
Rob (07:33)
... towards Tour magazine, but it's just one of those things.
Or, you know, or they allow you to send in your bike with a one by and maybe, you know, missing brake levers or something like that and saying, yep, it's the world's fastest bike. So it's always kinda curious. But
Hottie (07:46)
Ha ha ha.
Josh (07:46)
Right. Right.
Rob (07:48)
But no, I think in the well-documented tests that we've been doing, we're doing very well, and we're very happy about that. I think, you know, we definitely w consider ourselves one of the aerothought leaders in the bicycle space now.
Hottie (08:00)
Mm-hmm.
Rob (08:01)
And yeah, it was also nice to see our gravel wheels also sort of dominating the competition a week or so ago.
Hottie (08:09)
So where do the ideas start? I know obviously the twenty eleven story there is is very interesting, Rob, where you know were racing and were looking at bikes and thought, Hmm, I think I could do better than this. Now where do the ideas come from, and how do you push them forward? What are the first steps you take once you have an idea, and then what do you do from there?
Rob (08:28)
Well, I think one of the things I've learned in owning a brand that I didn't really understand when I was just building bikes for other people is every time you do something, it has to be better than the time before. And that could be it has to be aerodynamically more fast, it has to be lighter, it could be in your marketing, it could be in your booth that you provide at a bicycle show. Everything has to be better than the time before. And it becomes very stressful and it becomes really like very time-consuming.
But I think that we're happy that we have a pretty long runway of ideas, whether it be for product or for marketing. And so we're just kind of sticking to that longer-term plan. I like to think that a lot of times one bike can't follow the other. You mentioned the Factor One, which, you know, we launched at the beginning of the year. It's the world's fastest road bike. Later we launched the Alara, a gravel bike that has a lot of those same cues.
Had we launched the Alara first, it would have been in widely widely disregarded. People would have been like, That's the weirdest thing ever. because we launched it after the one, which was purposeful, it all of a sudden made sense to everybody.
Josh (09:44)
Yeah, that's a great point. I mean I yeah, I think you... it's hard to blow up the conventional wisdom in this industry, right? And certainly Factor One, right which I absolutely love that by I mean, you know, came out of sort of a left field compared to what everyone else was doing and and then pretty quickly was kicking everybody's ass. So yeah, I mean really, it's a great point though that yeah, had it started as gravel, people would be like, Well that's just weird.
Hottie (10:12)
Yeah.
Josh (10:14)
Although I'm personally anxious to get on an Alara gravel bike. I mean you guys nailed it. I think with the look, and the tire clearance. You know, it's a thing 'cause you can fit what, up to sixty millimeter front or two point four?
Rob (10:28)
A fifty-seven. so
Josh (10:29)
Fifty seven okay.
Rob (10:31)
yeah. Although not all fifty-sevens are measured the same. But if we're looking at, say, a Continental 57, it fits very nicely. Some other tires we find because of the various shapes, as you know, some are a little tighter than others.
Hottie (10:48)
Yeah, one of your struggles with the press must be, and I'm just guessing here, that Rob, a fifty-seven millimeter tire or sixty or whatever that Alara fits, it's just not aerodynamic. So why are you making an aerodynamic bike when that tire
Rob (11:00)
Ha ha.
Hottie (11:00)
is as bulbous as they come?
Rob (11:03)
I remember talking to Josh years ago and we were talking about 25-millimeter tires, and we were talking about anything bigger than a 25-millimeter tire becomes...
Hottie (11:12)
Mm-hmm.
Rob (11:12)
...Pretty un-aerodynamic. And you know, I think starting in January of next year, all of our road bikes ship with 30 millimeter tires. It's part of the package, right? And so if people want to use a 57 millimeter tire, you still need to optimize your bike.
For a 57 millimeter tire, make it as aerodynamic as possible. And that's why you can see we've gone to a 64-millimeter deep carbon rim, which again, everybody would have thought, that's crazy. Why would you do that? And it's because it's sort of balancing out a very big tire. And it's also incredibly fast. It's definitely not the lightest weight, you know, weight of going about things, but I think that in gravel, weight is starting to become sort of secondary to aerodynamics.
Josh (12:02)
Yeah, certainly. I mean, with the speeds we're seeing at the top end of the sport, Aero I mean, Aero matters now, right? Where I think it
Rob (12:10)
Yeah, I mean Unbound was one
with an average speed of thirty-five kilometers per hour last year, and that was with those crazy mud conditions. Imagine had it
Josh (12:18)
Right.
Rob (12:19)
been dry, how fast they could go. So
Josh (12:22)
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it it's it's here for sure. And it's great to see weight being downplayed a little bit in favor of aero and well and comfort and you know, in when you were naming all your things earlier, you forgot to mention vertically compliant But
Hottie (12:41)
Laterally stiff, or yes.
Josh (12:44)
But again, I mean that like w we've actually gotten good at engineering that into modern
bicycle frames. I mean, you guys are doing a hell of a job with that, you know?
Rob (12:54)
Well, you know,
I'll be honest, we had an internal discussion a few weeks ago about, you know, how stiff our next road bike needs to be. And I said, regardless of how stiff it is, it's gonna have a thirty-millimeter tire on it. And so that is gonna definitely negate any of the stiffness gains or even requirements that would have been there.
Had that tire had 100 PSI and been 23 millimeters wide. And so, you know, the days of chasing stiffness, I think, are definitely over. I remember, you know, 15 years ago the bike couldn't be stiff enough. And now we don't
Josh (13:29)
Right, right.
Rob (13:30)
Really talk about it that much anymore. Now it's more about, I think, balance and just making sure you have the right stiffness. But there becomes that point of diminishing return on stiffness. And so yeah, I think that's why people aren't really talking about it that much anymore.
Hottie (13:44)
Let me ask you this as a bike builder, can a bike 'cause this is what we hear all the time, can a bike be both vertically compliant and laterally stiff?
Rob (13:54)
Sure. But well, there's a caveat to that, right? It's
Hottie (13:56)
Okay. You don't sound convinced. Yeah.
Josh (13:56)
Ha ha.
Rob (14:04)
I think that it's- how is it vertically compliant, right? If you have a suspension seat post or something like that, obviously it's vertically compliant. but if you want it to be, you know, a stiff bottom bracket for a pedaling performance, you know, there's always a compromise there.
Hottie (14:21)
Mm-hmm. So you're saying if I walked into Factor right now and we sat down at your CFD machine or your design, your CAD, rather, and I said, Rob, I want vertically compliant, laterally stiff, you could make me that bike. With no seat post.
I don't want the seat post. I want your seat post.
Rob (14:36)
Yeah, I mean we could design it, you know, into seat stays and chain stays, I suppose.
Hottie (14:40)
Okay.
Rob (14:41)
But it's, you know, again, I feel like a bike right now is more about balance. I think that we got a little too carried away with stiffness, and now things are kind of coming back a bit. I think it's more about a head tube stiffness percentage of bottom bracket stiffness that makes more sense to me. You know, and so the easiest way, you know, these are not actual numbers, but if you have a head tube stiffness of one hundred and a BB stiffness of two hundred.
You know, that's the most ideal s scenario for a bike that will handle really well. And maybe it's not compliant in the ways that you're mentioning, but it's a bike that will ride really well and definitely will corner and track super well.
Hottie (15:21)
Hm. Is that measurable? How do you do that?
Rob (15:25)
well, we do measure head tube stiffness, we do measure BB stiffness, we do measure, you know, even stiffness at the seat posts, stiffness at the handlebar. So we are able to quantify all of those things. And we do have about 25 years of data going back to when I first started to build bikes for other brands. So, you know, with that data, we're we're pretty confident in understanding where a bike needs to be. We've also gone in strain-gauged frames as well, so we can see the actual forces that the frames are seeing as it's being driven through a turn or as it's being sprinted on. And so, you know, that's some pretty interesting data as well. We don't share that one as much as we share, you know, just the absolute stiffness values because customers could actually, you know, with the right fixturing, actually be able to figure that out themselves.
Josh (16:13)
Yeah, I love the your to talk balance as well, 'cause I feel like we you you mentioned Tour magazine earlier. I feel like Tour magazine really sort of did the cus the consumer a disservice there by driving frame design into really such a pure stiffness focus that there were a lot of bikes made that quite frankly, like would win the Tour magazine test and absolutely sucked to ride.
And and it's been nice to see like I think we've we've backed off of that a bit to more of this sort of nuanced, balanced approach. but talk about what you see there. I don't feel like we see those big the German brands, you know, the who was it, there for a while, Stork and you know, some of these guys who were just it was all about winning the Tour Magazin test and then you'd ride that bike and like, oof, this thing is brutal.
Rob (17:04)
Yeah, well, I do think it's still relevant at Tour Magazin. I think it's still relevant amongst some of the German brands. But I can tell you, you know, I used to build bikes for Canyon, and Canyon used to really care about that. I don't think they care about it at all anymore. Definitely Cervelo cared about it quite a bit as well. And I think they also don't care about it as much anymore. I think the consumer now is a lot more savvy and educated.
More so than they were, you know, fifteen, twenty years ago when they maybe had a lot more belief in those tests.
Josh (17:45)
let's talk about I think last time
Rob (17:47)
Yeah.
Josh (17:48)
I saw you was in Taipei for the trade show and
Rob (17:53)
Yeah.
Josh (17:53)
you guys had just launched the Bugatti bike and I
Rob (17:57)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (17:57)
remember you were telling me you said, our next collab is gonna be SpongeBob and I were standing there thinking like I don't understand that like I think you're...
Hottie (18:06)
Yeah.
Josh (18:07)
...crazy. And then you launched it and I'm like, why do I want one of these? Like this is awesome. Talk to me about like
Rob (18:12)
Yeah.
Josh (18:14)
your collab process and
Rob (18:16)
Yeah.
Josh (18:17)
I just find that fascinating. And talk about bookends. I mean, it's about as opposite as you can get from Bugatti to SpongeBob.
Rob (18:21)
Sure. Well, yeah,
It wasn't just SpongeBob; it was SpongeBob and Patrick. We actually launched two bikes. so
Josh (18:30)
Okay.
Rob (18:31)
if you're familiar, if you're familiar with SpongeBob, you know his cohort, Patrick. And
Josh (18:35)
Yeah, yeah.
Rob (18:35)
so I think, you know, the goal for us with any sort of collab is obviously to bring attention to the brand. you know, when we did the Bugatti one, it was about this super premium, super luxury, you know.
UCI illegal racing bike, it, you know, while it looks like a Factor One, it's actually different molds than the Factor One.
Hottie (18:57)
Yeah.
Rob (18:57)
And so I think a lot of people only realize that later that we went through all that work. We didn't just want to slap a logo on a bike and then say, here it is, a Bugatti bike. It really was a bike built for Bugatti with lots of customized componentry and a completely bespoke frame.
For SpongeBob the impetus around that was, you know, we sponsor we had two women's teams at the Tour de France Femmes this year. And what we noticed at the Tour de France Femmes is that it's a much more sort of family-friendly event. It's not like the men's race where you can't get anywhere near the buses or you can't pretty much get anywhere other than where, you know, they want you to be. And but what we noticed at the Tour de France Femmes is, you know, most of the spectators there, they're not so much bike racing fans in the sense like they they know the sport a bit and they know the yellow jersey. And so you would always see them at the tour last year. They were always all like crowded around Pauline because she was wearing the yellow jersey. And we're like, well what can we do to get the families to over to some of our teams because you know whether it be human powered health or Ma Petit, we wanted to drive some traffic there. And we know that kids love SpongeBob and they love Patrick and we're like, well why don't we have them racing on these you know very specially designed bikes. So we worked with Paramount to license the shows and
Hottie (20:28)
Mm-hmm.
Rob (20:28)
Then we designed the two bikes, you know, one for Mapetite and one for Human-powered Health, and it was a huge success. We also had a very special Range Rover there that was also one side was SpongeBob and one side was Patrick and it was fully wrapped and
We were giving out hats and musettes and umbrellas, and it was just a great, you know, family experience that brought more awareness to the Tour de France Femmes, to our teams. And, you know, obviously it's a pretty fun bike. You know, you were saying you want one? I actually have one. and so it's a bike
Josh (21:02)
Yeah.
Rob (21:03)
that I really you know, you know that I that I like riding myself. So
Hottie (21:09)
So did Paramount
Josh (21:09)
Yeah, yeah. No, I think
Hottie (21:11)
take much convincing? Did they get it right away?
Rob (21:14)
No, but what
What sealed the deal with Paramount was Toyota France, right? I think
Hottie (21:19)
Yeah.
Rob (21:20)
Had the Tour de France not been involved, they probably wouldn't have been as eager. But even Paramount, they understand the Tour de France, and so they were very open to to doing this. But you know, like I was talking about, you know, the Alara couldn't have happened without the one. probably SpongeBob couldn't have happened without Bugatti, and Bugatti couldn't have happened without Paul Smith, and Paul Smith couldn't have happened without Miku.
So it's all just, you know, it's layer upon layer of doing these collabs, you know, that sort of bring everything, you know, together and it allows you to do the next one and the next one and it can be of a more prominent collaboration as you go along. So, you know, Josh was asking what's gonna happen next year. Obviously, we're already working on something, and it'll be a pretty fun collab.
Hottie (22:07)
Okay.
Josh (22:09)
So how how do you go how do you get the email of the person at Paramount? That's
Hottie (22:13)
Yeah.
Josh (22:13)
what I thought about. Yeah.
Rob (22:14)
It's not easy; I can tell you that. it you know,
A lot of, you know, we're very lucky that we have some amazing brand ambassadors who are customers, right? People who have bought factors and that, you know, y somehow you end up speaking with them and a lot of times well, they know someone who knows someone, or they have connections, and a lot of times it just you know, sort of peeling back the layers to find, you know, the right person that you could discuss, you know, in the licensing departments.
Hottie (22:45)
Mm. Some SpongeBob tires, Josh, maybe? Would you like to do it?
Josh (22:46)
It is funny though, that when I see that, that's the fur you know, like you know, we've done collabs with with people as well, and that's like Spongebob, but then my brain immediately is like, man, if like if that was me, how would I go about getting the contact to get the c right right?
Hottie (23:04)
Yeah. Yep.
Josh (23:05)
Having done it, it's like that's the hard part of the thing, and it's super impressive at a scale like that. So well well done.
Rob (23:13)
Yeah, well
Again, again, it's all, you know, I think everything leads back to the first collab, and then obviously Paulsmith was another big one. And so I think they start to trust you because they can see, you know, that you're not gonna abuse their brand and that you're actually gonna do right by them. And but there's a lot of checks and balances or mostly checks, you gotta go through of, you know, making sure, you know, sending them proof after
Josh (23:35)
Yeah. Well.
Rob (23:36)
proof, making sure you're using their logo in the right way and the colors exactly right and all those things.
Hottie (23:44)
So Robin, getting ready for this show, obviously I do a little research, and I listened back to an interview you did in twenty twenty four. And at the time you said you thought that aero frames had hit the weight floor, that they'd gotten as light as they could be. Is that still true, do you think? Does that hold up today?
Rob (24:01)
I think if we're looking at aero only, yes, I think the weight has hit the floor. I think if we're looking at, you know, developing up a bike that's still lightweight and aero, maybe not quite as aero. I would say weight hasn't quite hit the floor yet.
Hottie (24:18)
Mm-hmm.
Rob (24:19)
and it's trying to find that balance at the moment. So, you know, our Ostro was the fastest bike when it was tested three years ago. It's now dropped to like number seven or eight on the list, and there are very few do-it-all road bikes in front of it. I think there's two. And I think, you know, you know, certainly if we went back and redid that bike now, we could certainly make it quite a bit faster. And so I think that there's still this opportunity for, you know, a very light bike that's, you know, close to the Factor One, but not quite as aero as the Factor One.
Hottie (24:51)
Okay.
Josh (24:56)
Yeah, that I guess the thinking that through is w what we're seeing with road bikes, and I think some of this to me feels like a post-COVID hangover still hanging over. but it does seem like like some of the brands are condensing, you know, like I mean, Specialized did away with the whatever the hell what they call their aerobike
Rob (25:16)
the
Venge, right? I believe. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Hottie (25:17)
The vengeance.
Josh (25:17)
The Venge, it's gone, you know, and they're kind of trying to do this like, yeah, this is the S-L-9 is sort of the do-it-all bike, and I, you know, which to me feels like, well, it's- I think you guys just are still sitting on inventory. but it I mean, what do you see as the the convergence there? Do we all end up with sort of do-it-all bikes? Is there still space for, you know, aero road bike, a climbing
Rob (25:40)
Well, I I mean I
Josh (25:41)
road bike,
Rob (25:42)
I can tell you that the Factor One has been a commercial success. I think that we've actually sold more than we actually anticipated. So there's definitely a market there for I would I don't wanna really talk about, you know, arrow versus do it all. I think, you know, to me it's it's as race bike as you can get. And so, I think it makes sense in 98% of the conditions that, you know, a bike race sees. I think, you know, I struggle to try to explain weight to people that it really doesn't matter unless, you know, we're talking about the last 200 meters and it's 15%. you know, going uphill. And so I, people still really struggle with that. And they still, you know, think, lighter is better; I need a lighter bike. And I think that there's reasons for a light bike. I think light bikes feel really nice. I think they, you know, it aero provides maybe a little snappier feeling or a different kind of feeling. But ultimately, you know, as we know, aero is always trumps weight. But it's still hard to get that point across to people. But I think in places like Miami, for example, you know, the Factor One is like the dominant bike for the fast guys on the group rides.
Because if you're not riding that bike, you're actually at a disadvantage.
Hottie (27:06)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (27:08)
Same is true here in Indiana. We see a lot of Factor ones. Well, and
Rob (27:09)
Ha ha
Josh (27:11)
We've got a great Factor dealer here in town. but
Rob (27:14)
Yeah, yeah.
Josh (27:16)
Yeah, I've seen how much you credit, you know, I mean, you and I've been telling the Aero versus Waite story for twenty-plus years. And it does seem like we're finally, like, Aero has broad acceptance, even amongst the world tour pros.
I guess how much do you see of that playing a role as well? 'Cause I mean they were some of the hardest to convince, especially like the Frenchies, right? And the Spanish guys, like, no, no, no, this is the more important thing, and we've had twenty years of them saying,
Rob (27:50)
Yeah.
Josh (27:51)
but wait
Rob (27:52)
I think I don't want to say they all get it, but I would say most of them get it. I think there's still some of the old guard left. The same guys that didn't want to use disc brakes ten years ago. I think there's still some of them left that still, you know, will argue, it's you know, it's too heavy. But I think for the most part, guys are starting to really understand it. You can see that, you know, the UCI has made the max rim size sixty-five millimeters.
For next year, and I guarantee you everybody's gonna be riding sixty-five-millimeter deep wheels next year because everyone understands that if you're not, you're actually at a disadvantage.
Josh (28:32)
Yeah, great point. And I mean, it certainly helps that you've got the guys who are winning riding the Arrow stuff. Write that. So gone.
Rob (28:41)
Yeah, I think that's
definitely a big part of it. And I think for the ones that are maybe, you know, maybe the sponsored teams that don't have such a fast bike, perhaps, you know, they'll still lean towards, it's very light because, you know, they have they need something to hang their hat on. But I think for any of the brands that have a super aerobike, I think that you'll see that that's the bike that they're asking all their professional riders to use because it makes the most sense.
Hottie (29:05)
It's light and it's vertically compliant. Don't forget that too. It's not aero, but man. It's comfy.
Rob (29:09)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Hottie (29:12)
It's a Cadillac. Yeah.
Josh (29:16)
Yeah,
Those are fewer and farther between these days, right? I mean, it is really interesting to see that it does feel like we finally say turn that corner, but I mean, not to name names, but I think there's just a handful of brands left that don't have it or aren't at least trying to be aware.
Rob (29:34)
I think there's a lot trying, and that's why I thought that the cycling news tests were very interesting because there's also a lot of bikes that look very similar, but you can see that the results are very different. So making something that looks arrow and making something that actually is arrow are not exactly the same thing.
Josh (29:54)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I guess that's a better p point to clarify that they're all tr trying to ride aerobikes, but not all aerobikes are the same. And and I think yeah, that that was a particularly good article 'cause like you said, the the spread is pretty large. I mean sa same with the wheels, right? I think people people it
anymore. I mean, if it feels like there's I think a lot of people think there's convergence. the wheels look the same. And they kinda do. but they
Rob (30:25)
Right. Yeah.
Josh (30:27)
they are far from the same from an actual performance perspective.
Rob (30:32)
Yeah, where I get a little frustrated is then they do it with and without a human rider. And obviously with rider, it seems like the spread becomes a lot closer together, or bikes that perform very poorly with rider all of a sudden do really well with rider. But if you read the margin of error that's actually in the test that they publish, you realize, well, that is possible to happen. But most people just look at the chart. They don't actually read the margin of error and they're like, well.
That bike is actually super fast when it has a person on it. I'm like, all bikes are generally the same. If they're fast with a person, they're fast without a person. They don't get faster because you put a person on it. But in that test, a lot of times, they'll jump quite there's a few brands that have jumped way up in the results because with the rider. And I'm like, that's just because of the margin of error, it has nothing to do with because it's more aero now that there's a person on it. So
Josh (31:28)
Yeah, no, that's a great point. Yeah, but nobody wants to talk about the uncertainties there. We're like, yeah, you're you're uncertainty ten x'd when you put the when you put a human on it.
Rob (31:38)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (31:39)
yeah, that's the that's always a challenge.
Hottie (31:43)
Well, since we l last spoke to you in twenty twenty, Rob, and then the
Rob (31:47)
Mm-hmm.
Hottie (31:48)
world entered a crazy time with a pandemic and a shutdown, and a big bike boom happened. What, what? Give us your view of kind of post-COVID, how the industry has give us your view from Taiwan. Like how does it look from your perspective as to what has happened with the bike industry? Obviously we've seen a glut of inventory sitting out there. Give us your your your
View from a thousand feet above Taiwan.
Rob (32:17)
Well, I think it's unfortunate, but I don't think the bicycle industry is still back to good health yet. I think some brands are doing okay, but I think a lot of brands are still struggling. Maybe not simply because of the glut of inventory, but in some ways because, you know, everyone who needed an eight-thousand-dollar mountain bike bought one during COVID, and they don't need another one right at the moment. So in many ways, you know, those sales got kind of front-loaded in a way; you know, everybody bought one. so those bike companies, they had an amazing year or two. And then now all of a sudden they're not selling many bikes. But it's not because people aren't riding bikes. It's just because, you know, there's a certain time frame. You don't need your next $8,000 mountain bike if you have one, especially when a lot of brands are not investing in innovation at the moment. So they're not giving people really a reason to go buy another bike. And so I think that's part of it.
I think there was a lot of greed during the COVID time and coming out of it. And so I think most of these brands that ended up with a lot of inventory, it was self-inflicted harm. Where they just thought this was gonna go on forever and they thought that, you know, whoever was the first to deliver was the first to win, rather than providing good fiscal, you know, common sense, understanding that, you know,
There are only so many people in the world and only so many bikes that can be sold. And assuming that we were gonna sell one to every person on the planet wasn't probably the smartest way of thinking about it. So, you know, I think at Factor we were a lot more pragmatic. We were very small going into COVID. We were still very small coming out of COVID, but we've continued to grow every year since COVID, which I don't think many brands can say that, you know, "knock wood." And so,
Josh (34:07)
Yeah.
Rob (34:09)
I think that, you know, we continue to invest in innovation and give people a reason to buy another bike. And so I think it's gonna be a little bit of time still before, you know, there definitely are still inventory challenges. There's you know, you can buy some really nice bikes at a very, you know, strong discounted price still. But I think that, you know, in the premium road section where we play, I think thankfully, you know, it hasn't been as damaged as some of the other, you know, parts of the bike industry. And that's that's why I mentioned the $8,000 mountain bike. I feel like, you know, people keep asking us, are we gonna continue to invest in mountain bike? And I unfortunately had to say no because I feel like that's the part of the industry that has been the hardest hit and the one that, you know, we simply just no reason to to enter that category or or continue to invest in that category at the moment.
Hottie (34:59)
Well, we're gonna get to mountain bikes in a second 'cause there's a whole wheel size thing going on. I want your perspective on it. But why do you think why do
Rob (35:03)
Ha ha ha ha.
Josh (35:04)
Yeah.
Hottie (35:05)
You think high-end road has been a little more immune to the kind of boomerang effect that we saw from COVID?
Rob (35:14)
because I don't think that many people during COVID thought, okay, now I wanna get into cycling and I'm gonna go buy a twelve thousand dollar bike. I think a lot of people bought a five-thousand-dollar bike during COVID. And I think a number of those people have fallen in love with the sport that we all love, and now they are purchasing their next, their second, their third bike, and they are moving sort of up the value chain, you know, to a more premium bike. I think that's part of it.
And the other thing is I think, at least in Factor's case, you know, we've continued to innovate, we've continued to sponsor, we've continued to do marketing, we've continued to go to the wind tunnel, we continue our CFD development. And so I think that, you know, we continually bring out, you know, a better bike each time. And so there's a reason to upgrade. just like, you know,
Apple's great at giving people a reason to buy the next iPhone. I'd like to think that we've given people, you know, a good reason to buy their next Factor.
Hottie (36:12)
Okay, now mountain bikes. You've scratched my itch here. We talk
Josh (36:14)
Yeah.
Hottie (36:16)
when Fatty's on
Rob (36:16)
Ha ha ha.
Hottie (36:16)
The show, we have to put Josh on knobby tires and talk about mountain bikes. You seem like first of all, I I wanna know why you're not heavily pursuing the mountain bike category like you are with road, and second, you seem like the perfect guy with this thirty-two-inch wheel thing coming around to come up with a bike that makes sense of that wheel size and is a
you
know, user-friendly type bicycle. So first of all, tell me w your thoughts on mountain biking, why you're not really diving headfirst into this, and the thirty-two-inch wheels.
Rob (36:51)
well I think on mountain biking, as we were chatting about earlier, I just feel like it's a very difficult segment of the market. I think you can still buy some great mountain bikes at a discounted price that were built two, three, four years ago during the COVID period. and there hasn't been a lot of innovation, you know, on the mountain bikes in in the past two, three, four years. And so I don't really see it as a place where Factor can, like, properly innovate and make a, you know, a contribution.
to to that space. I also look at it as you know, anything we do, we wanna do it quite seriously. And to be in the mountain bike space, that also includes e-mountain bikes. And so and you can't just dabble in e-mountain bikes. You gotta be working with it's the DJI DJI company, Equinox. Equinox. Yeah. E Evinox. Yeah, yeah to be Evanox.
Josh (37:43)
i yeah. Yeah, Equinox yeah. Yeah, Evanox or whatever.
Rob (37:50)
You have to be working with them. They obviously have the best motor at this time. And the way the you know the the e-mountain bike space is so challenging because, you know, if it takes you a year to develop that bike and then you bring that bike out and then you have the wrong motor because something else cooler has come out, then you're already, you know, behind the eight ball on it. And so we've seen a number of really good mountain bike companies, you know, really struggle. I think YT is a great company and yet, you know, they really had a tough time of it simply by choosing the wrong motor.
You know, they went down the road of Fazua and obviously, you know, the consumers wanted something else. And so, you know, it's a very serious investment once you start to get into e mountain bikes, and we just look at it as, you know, we are more of a drop handlebar company, and that's where we need to focus our resources.
Hottie (38:38)
How about big wheels though? Thirty-two-inch wheels. Not just for mountain bikes, but in your gravel bikes. Like, give us your view
Josh (38:43)
Yeah.
Hottie (38:44)
Of this new wheel size, and does it fit into the Factor brand?
Rob (38:50)
you know, I just was at Sea Otter in in Girona, Spain. I got back last night. I raced the gravel race there on Saturday. And I was asked this question by quite a few people, and there were a few brands showing thirty-two-inch wheels there. And I'll be honest, I don't get it. I'm not I don't
Hottie (39:10)
okay.
Rob (39:11)
see it. I'm
You know, I'm 173 centimeters tall. The last thing I need is even worse standover on my gravel bike than I currently have.
Hottie (39:19)
Okay.
Rob (39:22)
And so I think it makes sense for very tall people, but I think for the average consumer, I would tell you that, you know, seventy percent of all the bikes we sell are size fifty-four and fifty-six, some fifty-twos in there as well. Those people don't need a thirty-two inch wheel. And it's gonna be a very slow-handling bike. we
You know, it has to be. You're gonna have some funky geometry. You know, geometry is already hard enough to work with without adding that additional level of complexity. And then, you know, also the gearing is different again as well. So I think that, you know, there are a lot of challenges to overcome. And I look at the brands that are embracing this, and I feel like they think that this is the 29-inch wheel reborn on mountain bikes, you know, like, I'm gonna be first to market, and I'm gonna sell a ton of bikes.
I'm just gonna make the best gravel bike in the world, and it's gonna have seven hundred C tires, seven hundred sea wheels on it, and we're good to go with that. So
Hottie (40:21)
Have you tried to have
Josh (40:21)
Yeah, I'm with you. We, we, full disclosure, we're making thirty-two-inch tires because people want them, but I'm with you. I hate it more from just the inventory carrying cost, complexity, you think of, I mean, the additional burden that this puts on, you know, your bike shop to have things in stock. I, you know, I think that's the stuff that most consumers don't think about and I think there are so many companies out there right now where this is just
i i i I hate to say it, but it's sort of like they're out of other ideas and so we're gonna jump on this one. But yeah, but it does feel like it's coming, so we'll see where we end up in a few years.
Rob (41:06)
Yeah, I mean it's coming, but I'm not so sure. I mean, I think you know, I hear that one of the mainstream bike brands is going to embrace it, but I I almost feel like it's gonna be it's gonna be left versus right on on this one. You know, those who embrace it and those who don't. And you know, I'm pretty confident. I mean, we don't spend any time thinking about this, to be honest with you. And if we thought it was something important, we would spend a lot of time thinking about it.
Josh (41:40)
Right.
Rob (41:41)
You want to talk about summertime
bike riding?
Hottie (41:43)
We r yeah, I was saving that. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.
Yeah, well let's talk about
Josh (41:49)
Let's do it.
Hottie (41:50)
Yeah, one thing that Josh loves to ask his guests here is, how did the bike get into your life? We kind of have that story, but we know that the bike continues to be part of your life, Rob, and the riding. You just going out and riding, not building bikes, not coming up with the next great thing, but actual riding. So Rob, what kind of riding do you like to do?
Rob (42:09)
Yeah.
Hottie (42:10)
where do you like to go for your rides?
And
what bike, what Factor
Rob (42:13)
Well
Hottie (42:13)
do you choose for those rides?
Rob (42:15)
Yeah, well, I mean, at the beginning of twenty twenty-six, I decided I was gonna make a really conscious effort to ride my bike a lot. And at the end of twenty twenty-five, I decided that I really needed a very daunting challenge to really kind of force me to get my acting gear. And so I agreed to do a charity ride. it's called Tour 21 for Cure Leukemia. And what it is is
we rode the entire Tour de France, every stage, every kilometer, one week before the race, raising money for Cure Leukemia, which is a UK charity. And it was an amazing event. Obviously, you know, it had been a long, long, long time since I rode my bike 21 days nonstop and 3,300 kilometers, with, I think, it was 55,000 meters of climbing. and it was really, really hot.
But it was great being able to use the bike to give something back, because obviously I've gotten a lot from the bike in my life, and I was able to use the bike to give something back, and I raised about a hundred thousand US dollars for Cure Leukemia. The group that I was with, we raised I think nearly a million US dollars. there was 10 of us, and so it was our 12, 13 of us, something like that.
It was just an amazing effort, both in fundraising as well as riding the bike. then on the back of that, about three weeks ago, I raced the Gran Fondo World Championships in Japan. So yeah, I had to qualify for that. And then I went, and I did the World Championships. So I've pinned on a number in a road race twice this year. And then I've also I raced
couple of gravel races this year as well, a race Traka, a race Sea-Otter, have the Gravel World Championships coming up in Australia in a couple of weeks. And then I'm racing the stage race Gravel Burn in South Africa towards the end of the year. So
Hottie (44:23)
Yeah, that's a good one.
Rob (44:25)
I've really I don't want to say I've embraced the spirit of gravel, being that, you know I'm racing with Aerosocks, but I enjoy
Hottie (44:35)
What's with that?
Rob (44:38)
But I enjoy racing gravel quite a bit. when I was doing the Grand Fondo World Championship, the road race, I realized, you know, that physically it was a very big effort, but mentally I was like, I can do this in my sleep, and it just wasn't all that exciting just because I think I've raced too many road races in my life, and sort of I came to the conclusion that I love riding my bike on the road.
But I don't really feel like I need to race on the road anymore. But I definitely wanna continue to race gravel. I find it a lot of fun. And I find that it's, how to say it, a little more therapeutic because, you know, if it hurts, you just slow down. on the road bike. You
Josh (45:20)
Hmm.
Rob (45:24)
don't really have that option. You know, if it hurts, you still gotta keep hurting, otherwise you're gonna get dropped.
Hottie (45:29)
Yeah.
Rob (45:30)
And so I kinda like it, you know.
It was kind of like, you know, when I was we were descending in the Alps this year and one of the guys asked me, he's like, What do you do when your bike starts to, you know, shimmy a little bit? And I'm like, I slow down.
Josh (45:44)
Yeah.
Hottie (45:47)
Yes. Yeah. So tell me, what bike did you use? You have a lot of bikes at your disposal, obviously. What bike did you use for the twenty-one-day Tour de France event?
Rob (45:57)
I started it on a Factor One
Hottie (45:59)
Uh-huh.
Rob (45:59)
And then about halfway through, I switched to a Factor Ostro. And the reason that I switched to a Factor Ostro was that at the end of the event, I wanted to be able to sell the Factor Ostron and donate the money to the charity. The Factor One, I needed to hang on to it because it's my favorite bike, and I didn't want to sell it. So
Josh (46:23)
Yeah.
Hottie (46:25)
Mm-hmm.
Rob (46:28)
And so that's why I that's why I rode both bikes. Yeah.
Josh (46:29)
That's fantastic.
Hottie (46:31)
Yeah.
Josh (46:33)
So how I
Hottie (46:33)
okay.
Josh (46:34)
mean d talk talk us through like I mean w what that was like. I mean, how on average, how many hours were you on the bike every day? I mean
Rob (46:43)
it's
I mean, that is the more difficult part. I mean, there were, I think, four people that either were cancer survivors or currently with cancer that were doing the ride with us. And so the level of riding was not super intense. You know, my goal was helping the other guys to get through it. You know, obviously.
Some of the guys, you know, are a little bit bigger than others. And, you know, they struggled in the mountains. And, you know, there was a great guy from Ireland, and I sat right next to him for seven hours. I'm like, you are getting over that mountain, and you are not stopping. And I'm just, and I just sat on his hip
Josh (47:24)
Or how?
Rob (47:24)
the entire day and just helped him get through it. And so, you know, a lot of it was, you know, it's like two hours, a break, another two hours, a lunge, another two hours, and then you're you're trying to get to the finish line.
So it was about six to eight hours every day. But you know, we're averaging, you know, 30, 35 kilometers an hour. it's it was very warm this year. And it's pretty tough, but it's manageable. It's a manageable effort.
Hottie (47:54)
Thank you.
Rob (47:55)
I think that your average cyclist could get through it the way we did it. and so, you know, I I
been letting people know that, you know, if you're interested in doing this event, you're interested in raising the money for Cure Leukemia, I think you should really look at it because it's definitely not something where you need to be a professional cyclist to get through it. they've kind of structured it in a way that your average cyclist can get through it, but it's still a lot of work and
Hottie (48:21)
Yeah.
Rob (48:21)
you still need to to be prepared to be there.
But it's not about, you know, sucking down gels every forty-five seconds or anything like
Josh (48:27)
Yeah.
Rob (48:28)
that. It's like proper food and yeah. And just, you know, good management, you know, so it's really a durability test more than
Hottie (48:36)
Yeah.
Rob (48:36)
perhaps a physical test.
Hottie (48:37)
So what was the hardest stage and what was maybe the most memorable day?
Rob (48:44)
the most memorable day was when Roman Bardet came and rode with us. And so
Hottie (48:48)
yeah.
Rob (48:49)
this was something a little bit of the flavor that I added by being there was, you know, I have a lot of friends in the Peloton. So I brought David Miller to the very first stage to kind of give everybody a pep top to let them know what it was gonna take. And then I think it was stage eleven that Roman Bardet came and joined us, and we rode his most, you know, favorite climbs. And so, you know, doing that together with Roman was pretty amazing.
the hardest day, I mean, honestly, it's the the Queen stage with I think it was 4600 meters of no, was it 40? 5400 meters of climbing. It was just an insane day. You know, the cold, the cold, you know, Alpe d'Huez, you know, doing Alpe d'Huez twice actually. It
Hottie (49:33)
Ways. Yeah.
Rob (49:34)
It was just a brutal, brutal day. But
Josh (49:34)
Yeah, yeah.
Hottie (49:36)
Mm-hmm.
Rob (49:37)
the days that are in many ways the hardest are those sort of transitionary days that they call flat.
Which is like two hundred and twenty kilometers, thirty-eight degrees Celsius, and they still have three thousand meters of climbing. It's just four hundred meters at a time. So it's like death by a thousand cuts rather than you
Hottie (49:56)
Right, right.
Rob (49:57)
know just some big mountain. But you know, an amazing experience, and again, being with these people who who had, you know, overcome leukemia or had leukemia, it was really, you know, you really
are thankful for what you have, and you really can appreciate what these people have been through.
Hottie (50:18)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Well, congrats on that, by the way. That's a great
Josh (50:20)
that's amazing. Just it's a Yeah.
Hottie (50:24)
effort and a great amount of fundraising. That's just amazing stuff. And I suppose folks can still reach out and find that group and help support that group one way or another.
Rob (50:35)
Yeah, it's obviously online. It's tour twenty one for cure leukemia. The person who started it was an ex-footballer from the UK named Jeff Thomas, who is also a leukemia survivor, and he made this promise to his doctor that he was going to raise millions of dollars for the charity, and he wrote that he did it himself. he rode the Tour de France without being, you know, an experienced cyclist the first time.
Hottie (51:03)
Amazing. Amazing. Mm-hmm.
Josh (51:05)
Well, that's yeah, just fantastic.
All right. Well we'll we'll put a link to that in the show notes for this. And for those of you who are just listening, it's tour twenty-one.
Yeah. Google it.
Hottie (51:18)
Nope. Absolutely.
Now we were talking bikes before we got off on that topic there, Rob. Now for gravel, when you race gravel and you've been racing gravel, give us your your equipment choice. What factor bike are you pulling out of the garage?
Rob (51:33)
Well, most of the gravel that I'm doing is very fast, you know, one-day events. So I'm using the new Factor Alara. This is a bike that we just launched a couple of days ago. but we've been racing since the beginning of the year. This is probably the first bike that we really spent a lot of time racing before releasing it. So we definitely went back to the factory a couple of times and did some layup Revisions around the bike from the original samples to what we finally came to market with. We got a lot of great feedback from riders like Roman Bardet, who was an athlete with us this year. and so that's why we started racing that bike in January, but we didn't actually launch it until September. And so that's very rare that we would spend that much time working on it. But we really wanted to make sure that when we released it, it was exactly the bike that everybody wanted it to be.
And so that's a great bike, and we're using it with the new 64 millimeter aero wheels. And for me, my go-to tires are 50. I know a lot of guys use different tires for different races. I like to just stick with the fifty. I like that tire a lot. So
Hottie (52:44)
Okay. Okay.
Rob (52:46)
haven't tried the SILCA tires yet though. I'm still waiting on the gift package.
Hottie (52:48)
ha.
Josh (52:48)
Yeah, well, I'll let you know.
I'll send you a discount code. How about that? No. No, we definitely get you on some SILCA tires.
Hottie (53:00)
Now you've raced Unbound,
Correct, Rob? Would you take the Elara to Unbound [Gravel]?
Rob (53:05)
I would. but I think it depends on the day at Unbound.
Hottie (53:10)
Okay.
Rob (53:10)
but obviously all of our bikes have fifty-seven millimeter tire clearance. It's just a matter of would I want to ride suspension or not? And so, you know, we have the Serana, which is built around suspension, and then we have the Alara, which is not built around suspension. And so I think that you have those two options from the factor quiver of, you know, depending on the day, you know, what makes the most sense for the rider.
Certainly for Gravel Burn, I'm looking to ride the Seranas 'cause I'm looking to ride a bike with suspension because it is a five-day stage race. And it's a little bit of an un unknown what the terrain's gonna be like. So I feel like you're better off with suspension knowing that you have it rather than not having it and wishing you did. So
Hottie (53:57)
Vertical compliance. That's what we were looking for there.
Josh (54:00)
Yeah, that one
Rob (54:00)
There you go.
Josh (54:01)
Apparently, I Andy O did Gravel Burn last year, and a couple other people I know came back, and every one of them was like, my god, I wish I'd had suspension. So apparently it's it's quite brutal.
Rob (54:13)
Yeah, well we I did
yeah, I did migration gravel now two years ago. The first day I ever rode a gravel bike was at Migration Gravel, which is considered the hardest gravel race in the world. And I definitely wish I had suspension and I didn't really have any gravel skills for that race. thankfully now I'm a little more comfortable on the gravel bike, but yeah, I think that I hear pretty similar about gravel burn, which is in South Africa, while migration was in Kenya.
While we're talking about Africa, can we jump to Timamani?
Josh (54:53)
Yeah, absolutely.
Rob (54:55)
So you know, my role at Factor is a bit different these days. I work a lot in RD. I work together with our head of engineering, Grim Sh Graham Shreve, and I ride my bike. Those are kind of the two things I do. I'm not in the company every day anymore, thankfully. And one of the things I really want to focus on for the next few years is our relationship with Team Amani. I'm actually taking ownership of the team.
And we have this goal. The first goal is to get the women to the Tour de France Femmes in twenty twenty eight. We think this is a very achievable goal. Girls have already started World Tour races this year and have been quite competitive. There's definitely no reason that, you know, they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France Femmes in twenty twenty eight. And, you know, we look at what we're doing, you know, all of these riders are from East Africa. most of the women are from Ethiopia. And we are finding, you know, there's an amazing cycling culture there. And we're giving these girls and guys, you know, on our gravel team, you know, the opportunity to race at the highest levels. And when you start to hear their stories, you start to understand that, you know, bike racing to them is like, you know, mentally one of the easiest things that they could possibly ever do. When, you know, a lot of these
Hottie (56:19)
Yeah.
Rob (56:19)
people were in orphanages or military camps, losing their parents in wars. And so there's one one girl that is racing with us now. she was in an orphanage when she was 11 years old. She has a five-year-old brother that she was tasked with taking care of. They couldn't get enough food in the orphanage, so she had to leave the orphanage at the age of 11 to go to a bigger city to get a job so that she could go back and help her younger brother. She's now a professional bike racer. When she's lining up
And it's raining or it's really hot, you think that she really cares about, you know, half of the things that the other girls are worried about? You know, she's like, this is the most amazing, you know, opportunity in my life, and I'm not gonna let it go. And so what we're doing is really, I think, going to be life-changing for a lot of these athletes. And our goal is not necessarily to win the Tour de France, our goal is that one of our athletes wins the Tour de France.
Meaning that I'd be the happiest person in the world if one of the girls gets to sign a million-dollar contract one day, racing for one of the World Tour teams, and goes ahead and wins the Tour. you know, that would be going back to her village and changing the lives of hundreds of people. And so you know, this is really what I want to focus my attention on for the next few years as I'm getting a little older and I have the time to do it. And I think it's something that really excites and challenges me.
Josh (57:47)
That's amazing. That's amazing. So how I I guess how many years into the team are we now? And you said 2028 is sort of your
Rob (57:57)
for Team Amani, it started as a gravel team, and I think we're into the fourth year now, fourth or fifth year. Factor has
Hottie (58:03)
Mm.
Rob (58:03)
been with it since the very beginning. So it sort of has evolved from a gravel team to a women's continental team, still having the men's gravel team and now also having a men's continental road team. What we find is, normally in cycling, we know that the men's teams sort of pull the women's teams along.
We actually look at it this way. We look at it this way: the women are further along in their development, so they could reach the highest level sooner than the men. And so we're looking at, you know, we really love to get the women, as I said, to the Tour de France Femme by 2028. And then we will continue to develop on the men's side, but giving them you know, more runway, more races to develop, more time to develop. The women.
You know, if this were a Zwift race, they'd already be competitive with the best riders in the world if we're looking at watts per kilo or anything like that. They just need more race starts and they need you know, a little more experience in the Peloton, especially descending. But, you know, they did one year now in Europe and from January until now it's already night and day different, you know, what they've accomplished. We've had quite a few top twenty results, and even some top ten results.
Josh (59:20)
That's amazing and inspiring. Yeah, let me know if there's somewhere we can get in on that with you. 'Cause I'd be happy
Rob (59:29)
Ha ha ha
Josh (59:30)
to support, and I mean, it just sounds like an amazing team, and yeah, something that we'd certainly love to be a part of. So after this we'll
Rob (59:40)
Yeah, I think
I think when people start to research it as well. I mean, the person, you know, who started the team, he's actually an American. He's a lawyer for the International Criminal Court. Don't tell your president that. And so, you know, his heart is directed in absolutely the right way. You know, he's doing this for, you know, trying to further the lives of people. He has really, you know, nothing to gain personally from this other than just love and satisfaction. And so, you know, we were really happy to be given the chance to work together with him.
Josh (1:00:24)
Fabulous. All right. Well, Team Amani. It's A A N I. for those of you listening who want to look it up. I mean, it just sounds like an amazing project, and I'm really excited to see where that ends up. So I guess t to talk to us a little bit. So you talked about I know you your situation at Factor has changed in the last, what, two years? You used to be everywhere all the time doing everything. I'd I'd see you everywhere. You
And now you've been able to step back a little bit, right? So I guess talk talk us through through all of that.
Rob (1:00:59)
Yeah, well, you
know, we still have very much, you know, an entrepreneurial startup mentality at Factor, but it's certainly not a startup anymore. Thankfully, it's started to become fairly successful. And you know, I've always, you know, the team has always been the most important part. You know, I always knew that, you know, this was all about building the right team of people. And so I have an amazing CEO now in Calvin Chan, who's you know, running the day-to-day of the business.
And then, you know, we have a great engineering team all located in Canada that are building amazing bikes. And so, you know, the human element of Factor has always been the most important part to me, knowing that, you know, a lot of things would follow once we built a team of people that could see through all of the goals that we set for ourselves. And so thankfully, you know, I've put together a great team of people, reward them well.
I think. And you know, it's enabled me to maybe, yeah, step back a little bit and be more, you know, the face of the brand, which I wasn't comfortable a few years ago doing, but I've gotten a lot more comfortable doing it. You know, David Miller, the ex-professional cyclist, he is our brand; I forget his exact title, but he runs all of our marketing. and so, you know, he's really pushed me.
push me out front quite a bit. And so I sort of accept it now. A lot of these challenges I do on the bike are together with David, although he didn't ride Tour 21. But when I told him that I was thinking about doing it, he's like, " It's a moral imperative that you do it. So I get a lot of push
Josh (1:02:42)
Yeah.
Rob (1:02:45)
from him to ride my bike. And so yeah, I feel like we're finally in a good place now that I can step back a little bit from the day-to-day. I still go to the factory.
Quite often, you know, that's that's my happy place is, you know, I love to be in the factory making things. I don't want to be in HR having to deal with Gen Z complaints. and so
So,
Josh (1:03:15)
You
me you mean that's not everybody's favorite thing to do? Like yeah, what's
Rob (1:03:16)
you know Yeah.
Josh (1:03:21)
The what's the Simon Sinek, like I I I'm not feeling very fulfilled at my job. Like, you've been here six days. Like
Hottie (1:03:27)
Huh.
Josh (1:03:28)
like
Rob (1:03:28)
Yeah.
Josh (1:03:30)
I'm not changing the world.
Rob (1:03:32)
Yeah, so
Josh (1:03:34)
yeah, yep. We've all been there. So well that's
Rob (1:03:36)
Yeah. Yeah. So so knowing
that, yeah, I mean I feel really good, you know, with where we're at and where we're going, and I think we have a real clear plan for where we want to be.
Josh (1:03:47)
that's fantastic. And it it's like living the dream right there, right? When you build, you know, it certainly for me was that realization of, like, my company is sort of the product, and the product is made of the people that you put in it. And when you get the right team firing on all cylinders in the right way, it's really freeing and empowering. So c congratulations for
Achieving that, right? I mean that's that in and of itself is its own really unique success.
Rob (1:04:20)
Yeah, I don't know that I feel we have fully achieved it, but definitely on our way.
Josh (1:04:28)
Brilliant. Well, with that, I think we'll go ahead and wrap. We've been a little bit over an hour. We try to stick to an hour. But Rob, as always, great catching up with you. And hopefully I will see you again soon. I'm sure at some trade show or race or ride. So thanks.
Rob (1:04:45)
yeah,
definitely. you need to get out on the bike with me. Gravel.
Josh (1:04:50)
Man. Yeah, I next year. Next year's my year.
Rob (1:04:52)
No excuse.
Josh (1:04:55)
Next year's my year to get back on the bike.
Rob (1:04:57)
Michael, we're gonna hold him to that.
Hottie (1:04:59)
We will.
Rob (1:04:59)
Did you you just
Josh (1:04:59)
Yeah.
Rob (1:05:01)
doc document that and we're gonna hold him to it?
Hottie (1:05:01)
It I'm gonna write it down. It's gonna
come up in every Ask Josh anything until it happens.
Josh (1:05:07)
Okay. I like it.
I like you. I need somebody to kinda prod me, and I need something to kinda kick my ass a little bit. It's just too easy to just work yourself all day, every day, right?
Rob (1:05:20)
It's it's y
It's gotta be in the schedule. You gotta you gotta book it just like an appointment and you gotta block it out and make sure everybody knows that it's there. Otherwise it won't happen.
Hottie (1:05:31)
Yeah. Sign up for an event. That usually will get things going. Mm-hmm. I'm- well, something reasonable, maybe.
Josh (1:05:32)
Yeah. Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Unbound, okay.
Rob (1:05:36)
Bound.
down 100.
Hottie (1:05:45)
okay.
Josh (1:05:45)
yeah. Well yeah, 100. That's my speed at the moment. So all right. Well, Rob, thanks again. And
Rob (1:05:51)
Co.
Josh (1:05:52)
Yeah, we'll see everybody again soon here on Marginal Gains.
Rob (1:05:56)
Thank you.
Josh (1:06:00)
Awesome.